1112 replies to this topic

[todd]

^ i’m assuming that’s a positive message

[Redd42]

Absolutely. Though I have another negative story to say about Andrew Weaver. But in fairness, he likely has the same about me 

[Victoria Watcher]

How will the city decide about Clover Point?

I have read with interest the many ­letters, mostly quite critical, commenting on the changes that have been made at Clover Point.

I too am perplexed by the apparent unwillingness of the city to acknowledge that things have not worked out exactly as planned. My frustration is that I do not know how the city plans to assess how, or whether, the redesign has met their expectations.

Surely with a change such as this there has to be an evaluation framework? Is data being collected to indicate how and when Clover Point is being used?

I ride my bike past the area frequently and note that an impressive electronic counter is in place alongside the bike path to let everyone know how many cyclists have used the path that day and overall to date.

What data has the city collected on the Clover Point change? When will a ­decision be made regarding if and how this project could continue? Enquiring minds want to know.

Andrew Lane
Victoria

Walkway around the edge would be just fine

I have lived in Fairfield for most of my almost 80 years on this planet. Mayor Lisa Helps, in her recent blog post praising the changes at Clover Point, has missed the point by a mile.

The changes were made by someone at City Hall trying to justify their cushy job and Helps pushing the idea that the changes would help global warming by reducing vehicle traffic.

I would challenge Helps to go to Clover Point almost any day between October to April. I would suggest use of picnic tables would be close to zero.

The chances of anyone having a picnic during these months would be between slim and nil. During these fall and winter months, vehicle traffic should be allowed full use of circular drive on the point.

This is a great service to all people wanting to sit in their car on a winter day and read a book or have a coffee. The simple permanent solution is to simply put a walkway around the circumference of Clover Point and leave the road open at all times.

Paul Baldwin
Victoria

 

 

https://www.timescol...down-1.24349334

[Sparky]

I thought I would look back and review the rather scathing public discussions on this contentious topic, and the one comment that kept haunting me from the mayor's personal blog page was this.

Council compromised on staff’s original bold vision for the space, which proposed play features and place-making elements and closing the entire loop to cars

.

Where does this elusive "staff" fit into all this? I have always assumed that staff were fact finders and logistic analyzers as opposed to policy makers. The mayor seemed to be saying that if staff had their way, Clover Point would look much different. Who guides staff? Don't they get their marching orders from the mayor and council?

So after digging around in the vast acreage of said personal blog page, the mayor sheds light on staff's mission in this.
February 14 2021 post. https://lisahelpsvictoria.ca

"To get ideas for Clover Point, staff referred back to previous public consultation on ideas for Clover Point including this 2017 Fairfield Gonzales neighbourhood report that was produced by the Fairfield Gonzales Community Association Land Use Committee. Please take the time to read it; the residents put a lot of work and effort in."

Ok, that makes sense, staff research the feedback from the local residents to see what they want to see happen with the area after the construction mess is cleaned up. The Fairfield Community Association went to a lot of trouble to tabulate the wishes of the residents by way of a questionnaire with 22 various suggestions and then rated them by analyzing the 1-5 score submitted on each suggestion on the level of importance to the resident.

Good now I'm getting somewhere. This is where staff can get an inside peek at the wishes of the community from which they can formulate their plans.

There were 22 suggestions put forth to the community and there were 675 or so responses. The top ranked suggestion was to maintain off leash dog areas. Second was to preserve and enhance native plants. Third more garbage cans. Fourth bury electrical wires and fifth provide washrooms.

Where did the the closure of loop parking rank in order of importance? Third to last of 22 suggestions. How many thought picnic tables were a good idea? From what I can tell....zero.

Are we being played here? Is there some sort of "slight of government hand" going on...like a Penn and Teller show? Read it for yourself. Like the mayor said somebody went to a lot of work and effort.

https://fairfieldcom...ort-to-CRD-.pdf

[Mike K.]

Sparky, tremendous find! The idea to remove parking was in fact rated a 2.49 on a scale of top priorities, or 19 out of 21. The least favoured (curated public art) was rated a 2.33. The most favoured (maintain the area off leash) was 3.91.

You’re right. We are being played.

[Victoria Watcher]

staff is smart enough to know what parts council will like. it’s not like it was a close vote by council.



Coun. Stephen Andrew, who voted in support of the partial closing at committee of the whole last week, changed his vote at council and joined Coun. Charlayne Thornton-Joe in opposing the proposal, which passed 7-2.

https://www.timescol...cles-1.24290550

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 08 August 2021 - 07:17 AM.

[Nparker]

...Are we being played here?...

We've been played by Lisa Helps and her cabal since 2014.

[VIResident]

I am certain Times Colonist heart is trying to be helpful however giving 'them' a list could be asking for more trouble along the lines of Clover Point! 

 

In search of great ocean views and beaches. https://www.timescol...ches-1.24349461

[zoomer]

Was enjoying a picnic down at Clover Point yesterday, quite busy on a warm day. For the record I counted an average steady number of about 15 pedestrians and cyclists and 12 vehicles during my stay. Perhaps too hot for vehicles without air conditioning. It’s easy to forget how much land is down there and also what a terrible set up it is now. Whatever direction they go, do it right please. Which reminds me to ask, what the heck is happening to Peter Pollen Park? It’s positively perplexing why it’s been left to be a burnt out eyesore with a dusty gravel path (not great for walkers with walker or skateboards). Get on with it parks department!

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[Nparker]

...what the heck is happening to Peter Pollen Park? It’s positively perplexing why it’s been left to be a burnt out eyesore with a dusty gravel path (not great for walkers with a walker or skateboards)....

Aside from the unnecessary new name (it's always going to be thought of as Laurel Point), this once beautiful entrance to Victoria's inner harbour is just a sad wasteland now.

[laconic]

It took a long time for remediation, then a long time for the Feds to hand it over to the city. Now taking a long time for consultation for the landscaping plan.

"Laurel Point Park Remediation Project | Victoria" https://www.victoria...on-project.html

[mbjj]

We went to that supposed "park" by Laurel Point a couple of weeks ago for a walk, totally disgusted with it. Don't know who's in charge but no effort whatsoever has been made with it. It used to be lovely to sit on the slope under the trees and watch the harbour. Now it's "what trees, what grass". Don't like that new pond either. The old one was natural with water lilies, the new is more, what's the word, tame, man-made looking, concrete or something. 

 

Is that one girl on the bike practicing distracted cycling, lol? 

Edited by mbjj, 14 August 2021 - 06:15 PM.

[Tom Braybrook]

nice and breezy this evening...perfect for some wave watching at Clover Point, and of course the picnic tables and benches were packed...

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[Tom Braybrook]

...and not a car anywhere...

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[Tom Braybrook]

...and btw, before i could put my camera away...another car showed up and parked on the grass...

 

...**** you (council), we do what we want...

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[zoomer]

Wow, parked right on top of a sensitive ecosystem. A spark from one of those steel, plastic and glass monsters could set the entire Point on fire, even the surrounding neighbourhood.

If I were the city I’d respond to those unruly and dangerous lawbreakers by having a tow truck on 24 hour standby. Better yet, just get a crane and throw them carbon polluters into the ocean to create a new artificial reef. After draining the fuel tanks of course.

This younger generation, no respect anymore I tell ya.. First they skateboard on the sidewalk, tag our beautiful historic buildings with Texas Compensation graffiti and now they park wherever the hell they like. Next thing you know they’ll be camping in tents in our parks living out of their vehicles on the streets of Victoria.

[Mike K.]

A spark? Cars don’t shoot out flames like they do in the movies.

Now, if a blade is tall enough to connect with a catalytic converter that’s a different story

[zoomer]

Those punk kids roar past my place all the time, trust me I’ve seen flames coming out of their exhaust. Not to mention the puddles of oil and gasoline they leave all over the grass. Although the pot smoking shoeless 40 year old skateboarder hippy drinking a Coors light at the picnic bench the other day.. was likely more of a risk to Clover Point! Seriously, if we allow that riff raff to congregate there what’s next?

[Mike K.]

Yeah, that’s not normal.

I’d say there’s about a 100x more likelihood of doobie ash causing a grass fire than those cars. And you cook with oil. It’s good for you!

[sebberry]

...and btw, before i could put my camera away...another car showed up and parked on the grass...

 

...**** you (council), we do what we want...

 

Cars parking on the grass?  Drivers just claim they're an extension of their home and they can pitch them anywhere!  Don't worry, Ben Isitt will be around to pay off the tow truck drivers.