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#1 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 09:14 AM

Sure it is. People installing ad blockers know what they're doing. They understand exactly what's happening and the implications of their decusion but try to they convince themselves otherwise.

 

They understand they are getting rid of ads.  They simply do not understand or care about the implications of what they are doing, that's deep thought.  People buying online is ruining retailers, people buying Chinese hurts us, but nobody cares in the end.


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#2 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 10:18 AM

Everyone knows ads generate revenue. And common sense implies that removing the ads removes that source of revenue for a web publisher. And you're right, most people just choose not to care. But meanwhile, unlike with retailers, individuals on websites with ad blockers still use the resources the publisher must pay for. At least a retailer isn't giving away their products free of charge to whomever walks into their store.

 

Everyone using Uber knows they're screwing a licensed and insured cab company.

 

Can't you block your site from being shown to those with blockers?  People abuse retailrs all the time.  They buy stuff, bring it back.. they "showroom".  Don't just ***** about it, move your business away from the abuse.  Set up  pay-wall maybe.  Maybe you are in the wrong business, if all or the vast majority of your customers are willing to pay you absolutely zero for your services.


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#3 jklymak

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 12:14 PM

You could easily embed ads into your content instead of getting it via redirect and the ad blockers couldn't block it. I don't see how you will stop people from writing software that blocks content from some websites from being sent to their computers.

#4 Mike K.

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 12:44 PM

You could easily embed ads into your content instead of getting it via redirect and the ad blockers couldn't block it. I don't see how you will stop people from writing software that blocks content from some websites from being sent to their computers.

 

I think I know what you're trying to say but that's not technically how ad serving works. Displaying ads is a complex process that relies on a variety of tools, technical know-how and partnerships. Embedding ads into content and temporarily fooling ad blockers is not something that can be done on a scale that would produce even a minute result. It's also restrictive, time-consuming and will ultimately lead to broken content, expired content and mistakes.

 

The biggest issue with ad blockers is that they are promoted by browsers and this is something that legal experts are considering as a potential way to clamp down on their distribution. In Germany the biggest ad blocker is currently facing a lawsuit by several of the country's largest media companies. It'll be interesting to see what the courts decide there.

 

If ad blockers were "fair," as some people allege they are, they would require the user to pay for the content they receive while browsing a website. Want ad-free browsing? No problem, here's the rate you'll pay, otherwise you'll see the ads. Granted some websites go completely overboard and show incredibly insensitive, bothersome ads and it's those bad apples that caused the problem for everyone else. But ad blockers shouldn't automatically block ads, they should show them and allow users to manually shut down ads on websites which they don't want to see. But a blanket, no questions asked policy of blocking content (unless paid off to display it, which is what is happening) is wrong, destructive and will ultimately lead to an internet where pay-for-content is the norm ala cable television.


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#5 Nparker

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 12:51 PM

... Granted some websites go completely overboard and show incredibly insensitive, bothersome ads and it's those bad apples that caused the problem for everyone else.

Oh come now, the "Venus in Fur" ads aren't that bad.  ;)


Edited by Nparker, 27 November 2014 - 12:51 PM.


#6 lanforod

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 01:00 PM

Ad blockers absolutely aren't going anywhere, so learn to deal with it and factor it into your revenue calculations.



#7 Mike K.

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 01:04 PM

Let me turn the argument around: Individuals who appreciate the content they consume while enabling an ad blocker have the option to whitelist a website. Perhaps consumers should be a little more aware of the impact on their favourite websites if they would be so kind as to whitelist them.

But yes, running an Internet-based business means ad blockers are factored into the equation.

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#8 sebberry

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 01:09 PM

It's also not just about not wanting to see ads, but all the tracking and privacy concerns that go on with it. 


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#9 Mike K.

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 01:24 PM

Unless you turn off JavaScript you're tracked one way or another. I mean there are dozens of ways people are tracked on the Internet. Ads can be just a single slice of a massive pie in that regard.

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#10 jklymak

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 01:29 PM

Let me turn the argument around: Individuals who appreciate the content they consume while enabling an ad blocker have the option to whitelist a website. Perhaps consumers should be a little more aware of the impact on their favourite websites if they would be so kind as to whitelist them.

But yes, running an Internet-based business means ad blockers are factored into the equation.

No, you need to come up with a way of not serving content to people who use adblockers.  Its not reasonable to expect them to whitelist you or to not use adblockers.  And I'm certainly surprised to hear you say that their use should be regulated.  Surely the free market will figure this all out? 



#11 Mike K.

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 02:27 PM

No, you need to come up with a way of not serving content to people who use adblockers.  Its not reasonable to expect them to whitelist you or to not use adblockers.  And I'm certainly surprised to hear you say that their use should be regulated.  Surely the free market will figure this all out? 

 

But that's an easy way out and I consider it an absolute last resort.

 

What we really need is to make individuals who are using ad blockers aware of the repercussions or legislate what ad blockers automatically do when installed. With ad blockers, you set it and forget it, and that's where legislation should come in (i.e. ad blockers are fine, but they shouldn't automatically block all ads and then require whitelisting; the process should be reversed). In this day and age IP-based download restrictions are possible (YouTube uses this extensively). If an ad-blocker fails to adhere to specific regional legislation it can't be download via browser and must be sought elsewhere (few would go to those extremes, I'd wager).

 

California passed legislation making it illegal for websites to disable the back button on a browser. I'm sure everyone has encountered this "trap." So legislation is possible for things like this and it can be effective when done right.


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#12 lanforod

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 02:44 PM

I think I prefer the Internet largely unregulated. It wouldn't be nearly the same fantastic technology it is today if it had regulations and laws attached to all kinds of things. You're not exactly unbiased here Mike.



#13 Mike K.

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 02:56 PM

I'm not making the claim that I am unbiased, but we're all stakeholders here. None of us is on the outside looking in.

 

The Internet will be whatever we collectively want it to be. And I'm against regulation as much as the next guy, but ad blockers have created a major problem for a business model that enabled an explosion of content that has lead to the Internet being what it is today, a fantastic technology as you put it. If this business model is suddenly universally challenged it will lead to one of two scenarios that every one of us will be forced to choose: 1) pay for content you wish to consume or 2) watch websites you once consumed close or be severely scaled down. There's no alternative.


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#14 lanforod

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 02:58 PM

Really? Ad blockers have been around for a long time too! I seeing them over 10 years ago.



#15 Mike K.

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 03:00 PM

Computers have been around since the 1950's. That doesn't mean everyone carried one in their pocket 70 years ago.


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#16 LJ

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 06:40 PM

I'm not making the claim that I am unbiased, but we're all stakeholders here. None of us is on the outside looking in.

 

The Internet will be whatever we collectively want it to be. And I'm against regulation as much as the next guy, but ad blockers have created a major problem for a business model that enabled an explosion of content that has lead to the Internet being what it is today, a fantastic technology as you put it. If this business model is suddenly universally challenged it will lead to one of two scenarios that every one of us will be forced to choose: 1) pay for content you wish to consume or 2) watch websites you once consumed close or be severely scaled down. There's no alternative.

The only website I have a problem with is VV regarding ads. In the middle of reading a thread all of a sudden a voice starts talking and I scroll back up to the top of the thread there is a video ad for Home Depot or something. I don't have an ad-blocker, obviously, but that is annoying as heck. I just mute my speakers so I can ignore it but it does slow down the loading of pages when these ads are playing.

The other, passive ads on this website I have no problem with.


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#17 sebberry

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 07:21 PM

I'll admit that I do use an ad blocker (actually it's the tracking protection lists for Internet Explorer) because some of the sites I visit insist on using some incredibly obnoxious ads.  I also find that there are so many ads on some sites it slows down the loading considerably. 


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#18 Mike K.

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 06:58 AM

LJ, I think you've got a chronic virus or malware issue. Your browser has been hijacked by something and its overlaying ads. I think we've tried to help you with these issues on a few occasions. Oftentimes the malware will target the website or websites you visit the most in order to mask its presence. That being said, if you ever notice an obtrusive ad please let us know and we'll get on it.

Sebberry, and that's fine, but a few sites with an overabundance of ads or disruptive ads shouldn't force all other publishers who take great efforts to ensure their ads and the partnerships they strike are unobtrusive to their visitors to lose out on important revenue.

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#19 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 07:06 AM

I think I prefer the Internet largely unregulated. It wouldn't be nearly the same fantastic technology it is today if it had regulations and laws attached to all kinds of things. You're not exactly unbiased here Mike.

 

I don't want internet regulation either.


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#20 Bingo

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 08:12 AM

Depending on what websites I have been viewing will depend on which two adds might pop up at the bottom of this page, and they will have changed within minutes if I go away and come back. I don't really care, as it doesn't seem to interfere with my viewing of the page.

 

What I don't care for is the 15 second commercial at the start of a UTube video. I also don't care for the 2-5 second ads that have been popping up in the corner of the television screen while viewing programs like Gracepoint.



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