1208 replies to this topic

[spanky123]

$55K of Murray's severance is accrued vacation. Atwell is quoted in the Saanich News as stating that there doesn't appear to be a limit on how much vacation time senior managers can accrue.

 

WTF. So the guys knows nothing about labour law either?

[johnk]

Whatever Attwell's motives, he handled it in a very clumsy fashion. Of course not every incoming politician agrees with senior staff. But their first duty is to the municipality and they should find ways to accommodate each other while having contract discussions in private and/or waiting until the appropriate time to make changes.

Politicians are not short of ego (their basic pitch is "I'm the best person for the job") but many find out they are not as sharp as they thought or they don't have near the powers they thought the office gives them.

[spanky123]

Whatever Attwell's motives, he handled it in a very clumsy fashion. Of course not every incoming politician agrees with senior staff. But their first duty is to the municipality and they should find ways to accommodate each other while having contract discussions in private and/or waiting until the appropriate time to make changes.

Politicians are not short of ego (their basic pitch is "I'm the best person for the job") but many find out they are not as sharp as they thought or they don't have near the powers they thought the office gives them.

 

I think that you hit the nail on the head here. It seems like the basic governance model is lost on Atwell and his supporters. I think that he really believed that everyone at City hall and on council reported to him and that he can do as he sees fit.

[VicHockeyFan]

I think that you hit the nail on the head here. It seems like the basic governance model is lost on Atwell and his supporters. I think that he really believed that everyone at City hall and on council reported to him and that he can do as he sees fit.

 

He just single-handedly ousted the CAO.  So far he has done what he sees fit, and it has worked.

[pherthyl]

He just single-handedly ousted the CAO.  So far he has done what he sees fit, and it has worked.

 

But how did he do that?   If he has no power to fire Murray then how come Murray is out?   Maybe Murray wanted to get fired and played along.  That kind of severance is nothing to sneeze at.

[spanky123]

But how did he do that?   If he has no power to fire Murray then how come Murray is out?   Maybe Murray wanted to get fired and played along.  That kind of severance is nothing to sneeze at.

 

My guess is that the first thing that Murray did after he had his sit down with Atwell and Desouza was hire his own HR lawyer. His lawyer would have told him that he has $500K with no strings attached if he wants it or he can return to work and have to deal with Atwell for the next 4 years. No surprise which route Murray took. There was nothing council could do after the fact other than agree to the terms that Murray's lawyer presented them.

[spanky123]

He just single-handedly ousted the CAO.  So far he has done what he sees fit, and it has worked.

 

Yes and if this approach continues it will be a very expensive 4 years for taxpayers.

[VicHockeyFan]

But how did he do that?   If he has no power to fire Murray then how come Murray is out?   Maybe Murray wanted to get fired and played along.  That kind of severance is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Sure, either way.

[spanky123]

Atwell states that it is up to council to work with him and in the grand scheme of things $500K to Murray isn't significant.

 

http://www.cheknews....-administrator/

[pherthyl]

Atwell states that it is up to council to work with him and in the grand scheme of things $500K to Murray isn't significant.

 

http://www.cheknews....-administrator/

 

Well it isn't significant if it buys you a real benefit.  What's completely missing in this discussion so far is even the slightest hint of an explanation for why Atwell tossed him out.  And isn't it the media's job to ask that question?

[Mike K.]

The media has a knack for not being able to reach him.

[spanky123]

Well it isn't significant if it buys you a real benefit.  What's completely missing in this discussion so far is even the slightest hint of an explanation for why Atwell tossed him out.  And isn't it the media's job to ask that question?

 

Usually in these types of negotiated settlements there is a confidentiality clause. We will likely never know why Atwell fired him.

 

Today's TC editorial is bang on

 

http://www.timescolo...trust-1.1687175

Edited by spanky123, 18 December 2014 - 07:22 AM.

[Urbanistco]

The CAO and Mayor work very closely together. Murray is responsible for the serious dysfunction that exists within Saanich.

 

Break it down to the simplest parts:

 

1. Atwell wins Mayorship

2. Council is pro-Leonard

3. Staff is pro-Leonard, led by Murray

4. Atwell does not have Council votes to fire Murray

5. Atwell pulls off the firing of Murray without any Council or staff support...

 

It's a huge win for him...plus I don't know what all the fuss is about, it's super common for a new Mayor to push out the old CAO...

[spanky123]

The CAO and Mayor work very closely together. Murray is responsible for the serious dysfunction that exists within Saanich.

 

Break it down to the simplest parts:

 

1. Atwell wins Mayorship

2. Council is pro-Leonard

3. Staff is pro-Leonard, led by Murray

4. Atwell does not have Council votes to fire Murray

5. Atwell pulls off the firing of Murray without any Council or staff support...

 

It's a huge win for him...plus I don't know what all the fuss is about, it's super common for a new Mayor to push out the old CAO...

 

Lets assume you are right. Lets break down what happens then

 

1. Staff is pro-Leonard. Outraged at Atwell and subvert his efforts

2. Council is pro-Leonard. Hires replacement CAO who ignores Atwell's direction

3. Atwell does not have council votes to enact any of his campaign promises

4. Atwell gets nothing accomplished during his term and voters blame him

5. Leonard elected Mayor in 2018

 

How does this work in Atwell's favour or is the plan to start firing all of the senior staff at City Hall and trying to oust councillors?

[jonny]

I'm sure strong candidates will be lining up now to be Saanich's next CAO.

[Rob Randall]

I seriously doubt a credible CAO candidate is going to put their name forward knowing that the mayor isn't an ally. That's just asking for misery. 

[pherthyl]

The CAO and Mayor work very closely together. Murray is responsible for the serious dysfunction that exists within Saanich.

 

 

Such as?  This would be much easier to swallow with some actual evidence of serious dysfunction that would require firing.

 

 

By the way, Saanich sewer and water rates going up by 11.9% and 5.4% respectively.  That will raise an additional $617,000, which they claim is enough to make the water system sustainable...   Or they could have left the CAO, left taxes the same, and still had a sustainable water system.

[Mike K.]

Just think, we have 13 of these guys throughout the CRD. If we're going to talk about waste let's start right there.

[Urbanistco]

Rob Randall just hit the nail on the head. Nobody is going to willing apply to do battle with a Mayor. The CAO does not meet with Councillors on a regular basis, under section 116 of the Community Charter, the Mayor and CAO are the closest staff/political links.

 

Council only has one employee, the CAO. The rest of staff can brew in their misery, they answer to the CAO and nobody else. 

 

Pherthyl: you are right, I should provide evidence of dysfunction but at this time, the information is private so I apologize.  Ask any developer what their most hated municipality to do business in is...I would think over 70% would say Saanich.

[Bingo]

Lets assume you are right. Lets break down what happens then

 

1. Staff is pro-Leonard. Outraged at Atwell and subvert his efforts

2. Council is pro-Leonard. Hires replacement CAO who ignores Atwell's direction

3. Atwell does not have council votes to enact any of his campaign promises

4. Atwell gets nothing accomplished during his term and voters blame him

5. Leonard elected Mayor in 2018

 

How does this work in Atwell's favour or is the plan to start firing all of the senior staff at City Hall and trying to oust councillors?

 

I was ready for a change in Saanich, but I didn't vote for Atwell solely because he had not served on council.

It seems like Atwell had this move figured out before he went to the electorate, but kept his plans to himself.

I wonder how many votes he would have received if they had known he had the hatchet at the ready?

Not a good start at being open to the taxpayer.