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Schools in Victoria and school issues discussion


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#1 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 10:36 AM

While I think it's admirable that parents are willing to do this to secure a spot for their kids, I think it's ridiculous that South Park School can't find a better way to handle this registration process.
 
Surely the brilliant minds that run our schools can be much more creative and forward thinking.  A whole bunch of human capital is being wasted by parents camping on the boulevard for 72 hours.
 
 
If not a lottery, then have parents commit to volunteer a certain number of hours through the school year, maybe to fundraise for the school, or for more spots in this program. 

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#2 sasamat

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 10:49 AM

I agree; I think a lottery would be the fairest solution. The current situation also creates a class system within a public school program that is free and should be equally accessible to all. Single parents can't camp out all weekend, nor can parents where one of them works on the weekends. 

 

I grew up in Ottawa and it was the same thing every year for this high school called Lisgar High School in downtown Ottawa. It had very well-regarded gifted and IB programs and accepted extra students outside of the catchment area on a first-come basis. Parents would line up almost a week in advance to get their kids registered. It was absurd. 

 

I don't blame parents one bit for trying to give their kids the best lot in life possible, but surely there are more efficient and equitable ways to go about doling out coveted spots. 



#3 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 11:02 AM

South Park is across from BHP.  Can't all their kindergarten spots be "nature kindergarten", or however high the demand is?  What's the extra costs (I presume it's the cost) that makes them limit it to 20 students? 


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#4 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 11:19 AM

http://www.timescolo...fi-ban-1.702128

 

Ah yes, I see it was the teacher union that was opposed, typical.


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#5 jklymak

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 04:24 PM

At least sd61 has started to lottery French immersion admission. But you still need to line up if you want to transfer. I grew lining up is ridiculous and unfair.

#6 dasmo

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:10 PM

Lining up is better than a lottery. The space goes to those most committed!
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#7 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:39 PM

Lining up is better than a lottery. The space goes to those most committed!


Why not just give the spots to those that donate $1000 to the school? That also shows strong commitment.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#8 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:40 PM

And makes the school $20k.  

 

Quite frankly, it ought to be embarrassing to South Park admins that they can not come up with a better, more creative way.

 

Right now, the system pretty much says it's not set up to accommodate single parents, or parents that work weekends.  Or parents that don't have good winter camping equipment.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#9 Bingo

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 09:00 PM

And makes the school $20k.  

 

Quite frankly, it ought to be embarrassing to South Park admins that they can not come up with a better, more creative way.

Move a couple of portables in and hire a few more kindergarten teachers.



#10 gumgum

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 10:07 PM

Spoke with a parent yesterday that camped out last year. Although he found the idea of camping out insane, in the end it was a very rewarding experience as the families bonded during the ordeal.
I do find the idea rediculous, but I can't think of another option. If there were, it would have been implemented by now.

Edited by gumgum, 10 January 2015 - 10:08 PM.


#11 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 06:11 AM

I do find the idea rediculous, but I can't think of another option.

 

Really?

 

What we have here is a classic case of supply and demand.  We all understand that.  And the only way to change the inbalance is by increasing supply, or reducing demand.  We all understand that too.

 

So in a free market, we fix the demand side by raising the price.  Or we increase supply.  Or both.  The former often leads to the latter.  ie, if you can get $15 for your widget, whereas it had been originally priced at $5, you can take the extra $10 profit from each widget and put it towards producing more widgets per day (hire more widget factory workers), or to pay the shipping to bring in foreign widgets, that were not previously available to this market.

 

Now, here we have a problem on both sides, as almost everyone will cry foul if we increase the price of nature kindergarten beyond the current price, $0.  And on the other side, presumably the budget does not allow an increase in "supply", adding more spaces.

 

How about these ideas:

 

1.  Make paid nature kindergarten an option, pay $2000, and you get your kid in PLUS the extra money goes to creating another free space for one more child.  So if ten parents step up with the payment, they not only get their kids in guaranteed, but the money goes to adding 10 more spaces, for a total of 30 spaces now.  The other 20 families apply in the current fashion.

 

2.  Instead of making the sign-up at the school, make it at Our Place.  Instead of parents bonding over an urban campsite in the coldest month of the year, have the parents volunteer all weekend at Our Place, including staying there overnight this weekend.

 

3.  Move the sign-up weekend to a more reasonable weekend of the year.  It's a given they will get 20 applicants, the program is moving forward, is it really necessary to have the names of the little tykes in January?  Go ahead with the planning, slot the names in in say, late May.  Now your campers are not so bad off.  They got lucky with this weekend's weather, it could well have been -5 overnight at this time of year.

 

4.  Instead of a cash payment, have the parents volunteer 200 hours of their time over next school year.  Some will not be able to commit to that, that will show they are not "really committed" to the program, and will reduce demand.

 

5.  Go to the line today, and hand the first 10, 15 or 20 people in it their acceptance letters.  If there are 20 there now, that's your 20.  Why prolong it another night?6

 

6.  Run a lottery.  

 

I'm sure I could go on.  And yes, all the above solutions are not as easy as just letting parents camp out.  But they are a lot more thoughtful, creative and productive.


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#12 dasmo

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 08:18 AM

Why not just give the spots to those that donate $1000 to the school? That also shows strong commitment.


Because everyone has time not money.

#13 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:05 AM

Because everyone has time not money.

 

I'd actually suggest the people with the least money, also have the least time to camp out.  If you are a 9 to 5er with a government job, no problem, you can camp.  If you are single parent working two part-time jobs in the hospitality industry,  you might not be able to take a weekend off.


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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#14 dasmo

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:25 AM

Then who is watching your kids? Get them to watch them at your spot. We signed up but have other plans. You get a lot of notice. We know people who have done it. The people bond, work together, have fun etc. Much better than a lottery and a lot more fair.

#15 vicernie

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 12:30 PM

hire a sreet person to hold your place in line.



#16 jklymak

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 07:30 AM

Much better than a lottery and a lot more fair.

How is it fair?  If I don't own camping equipment and am a single parent who works on Saturday, how is it fair to be expected to line up all weekend?  I agree w/ VHF, you might as well just ask for a straight up financial contribution, as that equally is biased towards the well-off.  I think the lack of a lottery is outrageous.



#17 Mike K.

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 08:01 AM

Yup, this camping nonsense is just that, nonsense. It plays favorites via its very make-up and what's worse is there appears to be no appetite to do things any differently.

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#18 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 08:34 AM

Yup, this camping nonsense is just that, nonsense. It plays favorites via its very make-up and what's worse is there appears to be no appetite to do things any differently.

 

Maybe the trustees need to step in and make a change for next year.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#19 dasmo

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 08:40 AM

And a "lottery" would be based on who you know or if they did do a draw on television with rolling balls a lot more people would enter and you would have less chance. The line gives you more. If you sign up you have months of notice to work things out. You actually need to sign up, RSVP and then line up. It's community building. Plus the people that get the spots deserve them. That is why it's fair. With months of notice you couldn't arrange a day off?

Edited by dasmo, 12 January 2015 - 08:47 AM.


#20 Mike K.

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 08:55 AM

Lining up and waiting for an iPhone is one thing, but if our publicly-funded education system requires parents to do that -- parents that more than likely to have the financial resources to do that -- something is very, very wrong.

 

The easiest thing to do would be to have the ministry of education administer lotteries for situations like this. No bias, no ifs, just sheer luck of the draw.


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