1201 replies to this topic

[DustMagnet]

I've always wanted to eat my Whopper and fries on Government Streets sidewalk ... it's so European!

 

And maybe the 7-11 will set out a few seats and tables as well ... that way I can enjoy my Super-Size Slurpee at a sidewalk table, just like they do in Budapest!

 

 

Sure, why not?

[On the Level]

They could plant cisgender inter-generational Sequoia trees and decorate them for Festivus?

[Greg]

Makes sense when creating a walking mall on Gov't currently would highlight of a couple of faceless office buildings, a Burger King, a 7-11 store, and a dozen or so trinket and junk shops selling "Follow the Birds to Victoria" t-shirts to tourists (joke).

 

Not really the same as Montreal at all ... even if you squint!

 

 

I've always wanted to eat my Whopper and fries on Government Streets sidewalk ... it's so European!

 

And maybe the 7-11 will set out a few seats and tables as well ... that way I can enjoy my Super-Size Slurpee at a sidewalk table, just like they do in Budapest!

 

Is this where we all pretend that Roger's Chocolates, Chocolate Favoris, Bard and Banker, Murchies, Churchill, Earl's, Garrick's Head, and Irish Times aren't the busiest places on Government Street? Because those places would probably all benefit from Government being pedestrian with more tables spilling out onto the larger sidewalk. As would the tourist trash shops, because most of those tourists aren't in cars.

[Nparker]

It'll still be crickets chirping from October to April.

[Greg]

It'll still be crickets chirping from October to April.

 

I think that's an overstatement to be sure, but I'd be more than happy if the street was pedestrian only from 10:00 am to 2:00 am from May through September. It would be easy to further expand times and dates if it were warranted based on results.

[SamCB]

It would be cool if the city sold some permits for temporary kiosks / street vendors during the period of seasonal closure.

 

Maybe they could curate the permits and try to attract some quality vendors. 

[aastra]

 

I've always wanted to eat my Whopper and fries on Government Streets sidewalk ... it's so European!

And maybe the 7-11 will set out a few seats and tables as well ... that way I can enjoy my Super-Size Slurpee at a sidewalk table, just like they do in Budapest!

 

McDonald's in Budapest...

 

 

As the pics show, we should expect this sort of thing on a pedestrian street in the heart of the city. But it raises the question: do the Victorians who push for European-style pedestrian streets actually want "real world" pedestrian streets? Do they want to further energize Government Street and downtown as a whole? Or is the intention something different?

Edited by aastra, 19 July 2019 - 10:42 AM.

[Nparker]

The Budapest Metropolitan Area has a population of 3.3 million* people. Population of the CRD, including unincorporated areas is 413,406*. The former has a population density of 433 people per square kilometer. The population density of the CRD is 52.9 per square kilometer. I am not sure accurate comparisons can or should be made between the 2 regions.

 

*2018 estimates

[aastra]

Why refer to the CRD? The CMA has effectively the same population as the CRD but it's a fraction of the size, so the CMA's population density ends up being 528 per square kilometre.

 

Anyway, methinks a city's overall population and/or its overall population density isn't particularly relevant when we're talking about pedestrian streets in the heart of the old town. Cities come in all shapes and sizes but pedestrian streets can just as easily fail miserably in the biggest cities as they can succeed in the smallest towns. Would we say Bastion Square was a success? I'd say so, but I also don't think the Bastion Square example has a huge amount of relevance to the Government Street situation, even though they're in the same district in the same city and even though they join one another. 

[Nparker]

...methinks a city's overall population and/or its overall population density isn't particularly relevant when we're talking about pedestrian streets in the heart of the old town...

Methinks it is relevant when were talking about an area that for half the year has a relatively small population to maintain the vibrancy of a pedestrian dominated thoroughfare.

[mbjj]

That would only make sense if you're accessing it from the south. From the north Broad Street is the best approach. Most people would not access the Bay Centre by car from the south.

And that's exactly where we're accessing it from, the south. Along with anyone from James Bay and many parts of Fairfield.

[Cassidy]

Red Fish-Blue Fish shuts down for Fall, Winter, and early Spring for a reason.

[Cassidy]

Is this where we all pretend that Roger's Chocolates, Chocolate Favoris, Bard and Banker, Murchies, Churchill, Earl's, Garrick's Head, and Irish Times aren't the busiest places on Government Street? Because those places would probably all benefit from Government being pedestrian with more tables spilling out onto the larger sidewalk. As would the tourist trash shops, because most of those tourists aren't in cars.

Would it be presumptuous of me to point out that most of those joints don't have tables and chairs on the sidewalks, possibly indicating that they don't want tables and chairs on the sidewalk? ... and the ones that do only have tables and chairs "active" for around two or three months of the year also show them as empty and dead for the other 9-10 months of the year).

 

I love Victoria, and when the weather is nice here ... there's literally no place on earth that I'd rather be (seriously) ... no place on earth I'd rather be.

But ...the weather is only nice here for maybe two or three months a year ... with the remainder of each year cold, damp, windy, wet, and miserable. 

Such is life on the Northern borders of a temperate rain forest! (perhaps not the best latitude/longitude for a sidewalk cafe?).

 

Leave Government Street as it is ... it works just fine, and won't look ridiculous for 9 months of the year when it's empty of table and chairs, and utterly devoid of people other than those folks walking from point "A" to point "B", and who just happen to need to walk along Government Street to get there!

[LJ]

If we could make it like Cologne's shopping street it would be good year round, but there would have to be an awful lot of existing shops reimagined.

 

https://www.cologne.de/shopping

[Greg]

Would it be presumptuous of me to point out that most of those joints don't have tables and chairs on the sidewalks, possibly indicating that they don't want tables and chairs on the sidewalk? ... and the ones that do only have tables and chairs "active" for around two or three months of the year also show them as empty and dead for the other 9-10 months of the year).

 

I love Victoria, and when the weather is nice here ... there's literally no place on earth that I'd rather be (seriously) ... no place on earth I'd rather be.

But ...the weather is only nice here for maybe two or three months a year ... with the remainder of each year cold, damp, windy, wet, and miserable. 

Such is life on the Northern borders of a temperate rain forest! (perhaps not the best latitude/longitude for a sidewalk cafe?).

 

Leave Government Street as it is ... it works just fine, and won't look ridiculous for 9 months of the year when it's empty of table and chairs, and utterly devoid of people other than those folks walking from point "A" to point "B", and who just happen to need to walk along Government Street to get there!

 

Not so much presumptuous as just wrong. I've bolded the places on the list who have outdoor seating: Roger's Chocolates, Chocolate Favoris, Bard and Banker, Murchies, Churchill, Earl's, Garrick's Head, and Irish Times. Most of them do have outdoor seating.

 

And you seem to be one of several people posting in this thread who think that there is no activity on Government Street outside of July and August. I have no idea why anyone has that impression, but I assume it is because *they* don't come downtown the rest of the year. But plenty of people do. For sure there are rainy days in November and February, and fewer people sit outside in December than in July, but the street is busy year round, and people do in fact sit outside now and then throughout the year.

[Nparker]

And for "now and then" Government Street works just fine as it is.

[Cassidy]

And you seem to be one of several people posting in this thread who think that there is no activity on Government Street outside of July and August. I have no idea why anyone has that impression, but I assume it is because *they* don't come downtown the rest of the year. .......

I'm downtown in/on/around Government Street every workday, (and have been for 45 years) ... is there anything else I can correct for you?

[Mike K.]

Frankie’s Diner has outdoor seating as well, as does Starbucks (and the one that was one block south did). Sam’s Deli had a large patio, and the biggest of them all (I think?) is Kitchen, although technically it’s on Humboldt.

[Cassidy]

European style sidewalk restaurant/bar seating is an actual thing, and only a couple of the joints below sport such a set-up:

• Frankies is on the second floor overlooking Government St.
• Sams Deli is long gone.
• Humbolt St. isn't Government St. 
• Rogers Chocolates doesn't sell food or coffee, it sells chocolates. No reason to have table and chairs.
• Chocolate Favoris sells ice cream cones to tourists. Same note as above.
• Garricks Head outdoor seating is in Bastion Square, not on Government Street.
• My original post alluded to Irish Times, and Bard and Banker, which I noted had a fenced in area that closed down entirely at the end of Summer.
• Earls is another Burger King ... sorry I missed it.
• Murchies hs three tables out on by the road so as not to block the sidewalk ... sorry I missed it.
• And you both missed Milano, which actually does serve food and coffee, and has three tables outside, one of which is located on Government Street. Sorry I missed it.

Edited by Cassidy, 20 July 2019 - 06:27 AM.

[Mike K.]

Frankie's has installed seating on the sidewalk now.

 

Sam's Deli seating remains, to be used by a future business.

 

Why is Earl's a Burger King? It's a great place, and its outdoor seating is done very well.

 

The new spaces being created as part of Customs House no doubt will attract a restaurant that will no doubt have some form of outdoor seating.