1201 replies to this topic

[Spy Black]

To presume that the city traffic engineers haven't got this all planned out is probably to presume too much.

The gentle "push" of all vehicles up to Quadra and Cook is the plan.

 

The plan has never really changed, get cars out of downtown, it's for bikes and pedestrians.

And if there are cars downtown, make sure all they can do is transit pretty much straight through - like Douglas Street, once you get onto Douglas, it's either straight through, or an occasional right hand turn ... no left hand turns that would have you driving about looking for a convenient parking spot, rather a quick right hand turn and you're once again heading directly out of the downtown core.

[Greg]

Certainly need to think through guest access to Bedford Hotel and deliveries to businesses, and just silly not to have included DVBA in the discussion, but I'm actually pretty surprised that anyone thinks Government Street should be a main traffic route for getting through downtown. What a giant waste of the unique attributes of the area.

[Victoria Watcher]

Certainly need to think through guest access to Bedford Hotel and deliveries to businesses, and just silly not to have included DVBA in the discussion, but I'm actually pretty surprised that anyone thinks Government Street should be a main traffic route for getting through downtown. What a giant waste of the unique attributes of the area.

 

i agree.  with all your points here.

 

i of course like the idea of super slow-moving traffic streets.  a bit like broad.  not too many people speed along broad from pandora to view.  or go anywhere close to the speed limit.  you could restrain government down so badly (in one lane) that traffic would be crazy to use that as a thru street yet bedford hotel guests or other drop offs could take place.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 05 June 2020 - 08:27 AM.

[Hotel Mike]

To really work as a pedestrian way, the City needs to go the whole hog and brick the entire street to mesh with the sidewalk. Deliveries allowed before certain hours, say 9:00 a.m. Then automatic bollards go up. You can't just leave curbs and pot-holed concrete where people will be walking and sitting. A few years ago when they closed Government for an event, my wife tripped on a crack in the road, fell and hurt herself. Making Govt. pedestrian only is a great idea. I implore the City to not do it in a half-assed way.

[Nparker]

Maybe the city can install some ping-pong tables along Government Street. They are great at attracting people year round.

[Spy Black]

Certainly need to think through guest access to Bedford Hotel and deliveries to businesses, and just silly not to have included DVBA in the discussion, but I'm actually pretty surprised that anyone thinks Government Street should be a main traffic route for getting through downtown. What a giant waste of the unique attributes of the area.

Not that I'm supportive of a permanent closure of Government Street, but regardless of what happens,The Bedford has full frontage on Langley Street as well as Government Street. 

Currently the Langley frontage is all loading and support access ... but I'm sure The Bedford could deal with it if they had to.

 

I think any support you might read which promotes Government as a main thoroughfare is more about simply making a point regarding how difficult the COV has made it to drive around downtown - than it is any firm belief that it ever could, or ever would actually happen.

If you've lived in this town long enough, you already know that Government Street is gone for history as any sort of downtown thoroughfare.

 

As for loading and unloading, they're already closing off one lane of Government Street for half the day (until noon) each and every day for loading and unloading. Those of us who work in the area have long known that the loading and unloading is rarely for businesses actually situated on Government Street, rather the 10 to 20 trucks that are parked on Government Street all weekday mornings are making deliveries in the two (or more) blocks east and west of Government, and really using Government as their main downtown free parking and distribution zone. Hardly the intent, and likely to continue being abused as long as there's no enforcement.

[FogPub]

There's no parking in front of the Bay Centre, the only section closed off, so the impact on drivers is negligible. It's basically extending Bastion Square a little. Honestly cars always felt out of place from Yates down to Wharf/Humbolt. The only parking along that section is between View and Yates which remains open to car traffic. Even closing it to general traffic from View to Wharf wouldn't make anyone walk further from their parking spot, since there's already none. The current smaller setup's not going to have a massive impact on drivers' ability to visit downtown, especially since this is temporary at the moment while traffic levels are down due to COVID.

It's only temporary until they make it permanent, which will happen sometime in October I predict.

[FogPub]

Certainly need to think through guest access to Bedford Hotel and deliveries to businesses, and just silly not to have included DVBA in the discussion, but I'm actually pretty surprised that anyone thinks Government Street should be a main traffic route for getting through downtown. What a giant waste of the unique attributes of the area.

I think it should.

 

One-way southbound, and Douglas one-way northbound.  Immensely more efficient for all forms of transport than what we have now.

[On the Level]

I think it should.

One-way southbound, and Douglas one-way northbound. Immensely more efficient for all forms of transport than what we have now.

We could take a phased approach. Trucks first. 😊

[G-Man]

This is a good start though I do wonder whether we will be able to convince Victorians to come down here. Perhaps we will see a turnover of businesses if the tourism trade changes its focus. 

[Nparker]

This is a good start though I do wonder whether we will be able to convince Victorians to come down here... 

I don't think it's going to be all that easy to attract locals downtown without any sort of festivals or large scale events. For many in the region, there is simply no reason to come into the city.

[rjag]

I have no problem with the closure of Govt St. My only concern is that it should have been done instead of the mess on Wharf St. It should have been turned into the bike boulevard from Johnson to Humboldt with commercial deliveries restricted 7-11 m-f. 

 

With both being so constricted and restricted its just going to add to the congestion along Wharf and push more Northbound traffic from James Bay to Quadra to turn left to head over the bridge or points between Humboldt to Johnson. (try turning left on Pandora from Blanshard in the middle of the day.)

 

This decision, of course is hiding behind the thin skirts of Covid as it wouldnt work with a proper functioning democracy where citizens turn out and the agenda is posted in advance for discussion. The hit and run tactics of last minute additions of things such as this is cowardly and smacks of dictatorial leadership. They know that their ideology is broadly opposed so they are taking advantage of a crisis to push through their limp wristed agenda. Dont worry, there will be lots more. I'm sure we'll see more lane reductions etc to improve health outcomes because walking down a sidewalk is far more dangerous than holding a BLM protest  

[rjag]

I don't think it's going to be all that easy to attract locals downtown without any sort of festivals or large scale events. For many in the region, there is simply no reason to come into the city.

 

Yup, we went out for our first dinner out in months last night and every single place we considered was not even close to the core

[Victoria Watcher]

Yup, we went out for our first dinner out in months last night and every single place we considered was not even close to the core

 

where did you end up?  the aerie?  deep cove?  oak bay marina?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 06 June 2020 - 07:02 AM.

[rjag]

where did you end up?  the aerie?  deep cove?  oak bay marina?

Christies!

[Nparker]

...This decision, of course is hiding behind the thin skirts of Covid..The hit and run tactics of last minute additions of things such as this is cowardly and smacks of dictatorial leadership. They know that their ideology is broadly opposed so they are taking advantage of a crisis to push through their limp wristed agenda...  

Exactly. They are a despicable lot and don't deserve to hold public office.

[North Shore]

I don't think it's going to be all that easy to attract locals downtown without any sort of festivals or large scale events. For many in the region, there is simply no reason to come into the city.

 

The only reason I've been thinking of coming into the core over the last few weeks is to look at the bedlam at undisclosed addresses on Pandora, Johnson, and in Beacon Hill Park

[aastra]

 

...they are taking advantage of a crisis to push through their limp wristed agenda. Dont worry, there will be lots more.

 

Every city is pushing temporary-but-possibly-permanent street closures and speed limit reductions now, which conveniently jibes with the decades-long push for street closures and speed limit reductions (except today the justification is different than it was yesterday, and yesterday the justification was different than it was the day before).

 

No point even citing the places, just Google for it and you'll find thousands and thousands of examples.

 

Convenient crises have been the bread and butter of the system for many centuries, but this crisis might just be the most convenient one yet.

 

Anyway, methinks the anti-urbanists are going to have a field day now:

 

Small businesses have been strangled because of the plague,

Streets are being closed temporarily-but-possibly-permanently because of the plague,

Dense development is inappropriate or even dangerous because of the plague,

Getting around to other parts of town is going to be inconvenient if not discouraged outright because of the plague,

City centers and city parks are being packed with tenters and associated issues because of the plague,

 

It's the worst of all things. Note how we've got that same contradiction re: street closures that we had in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, etc. On the one hand we claim the street closures are for people, but on the other hand there's (still!) no associated push to add more people in the vicinity of the closures, by which the closures might actually have a chance to be successful.

 

 

 

[aastra]

Anti-urbanist says:
You know how we've been fighting like crazy since 1950 to prevent urban areas from becoming more pleasant, more comfortable, more safe, more affordable, more people- and family-focused? Yeah, well we're still fighting it like crazy, only more so:

 

 

 

[aastra]

 

It's the worst of all things...

 

I forgot another key piece of it: just be a good citizen and do all your shopping online now through Amazon or Wal-mart.