1201 replies to this topic

[sebberry]

Waling past the Black and White building at Fort and Cook, one can't help but notice that the nice big communal patio for lounging and BBQing is in lieu of proper individual balconies.  In fact, they're not really balconies, they're the little spots in the advent calendar where you get your chocolate treat from every day in December.  

 

I'm far from being an anti-urbanist, but the way we force people to use less and less space and share what's left isn't ideal either.

[sebberry]

I forgot another key piece of it: just be a good citizen and do all your shopping online now through Amazon or Wal-mart.

 

Not with the massive UPS backlogs!  

[aastra]

 

I'm far from being an anti-urbanist...

 

What the heck, I'll mention that I'm far from being anti-street closures (I like street closures that are done well and done with the right motivations), and I've never owned a car in my life so the speed limit thing has no personal relevance to me. I'm just noting yet again that these are longstanding missions and over the decades they've been all over the map re: their supposed justifications.

 

In the old news articles there were calls to close lower View Street (which happened and was ultimately a success in the form of Bastion Square), Cormorant Street (which happened, and was ultimately a misfire in the form of Centennial Square), and various stretches of Government Street, Broad Street, Wharf Street, Fisgard Street, Belleville Street, and Broughton Street. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there were others. For such a small city there sure were a lot of downtown streets that needed to be closed in order to make things better for everyone.

 

Some of those vintage closures were shameless re: driving lower-income residents out of downtown, so the premise that they were wholesome community initiatives 100% in service of the interests of ordinary people was rather thin, indeed.

[Victoria Watcher]

Matt MacNeil, who owns the Irish Times Pub and the Bard & Banker on Government, said he still has a lot of questions about the city’s plans and how they will affect businesses once applications open Monday.

 

“Because of the season and the good weather that we have, we all could use extra space on the sidewalks and on the street; there’s no doubt about it,” he said. “I just think that the devil’s always in the details and they seem to be in short supply so far.”

 

He remains opposed, however, to any permanent closure of Government Street to motor traffic, beyond the temporary measures aimed at helping businesses survive the pandemic.

 

“I know there’s been talk of them closing it permanently,” he said. “They’ve wanted it for a long time. It makes no economic sense to close that through the winter months.”

 

MacNeil said Victoria doesn’t have the population base or density to support a year-round closure. “So we need to be more nimble and thoughtful about how we make these decisions.”

 

https://www.timescol...azas-1.24147855

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 06 June 2020 - 03:29 PM.

[Nparker]

 

It makes no economic sense to close that through the winter months.”

And which decisions of this Council have made economic sense? 

[Rob Randall]

Closure made perfect sense in the prior summertimes when the cruise ship traffic meant pedestrians were literally spilling off the sidewalk onto the street. But now, who knows if cruise ship traffic will ever return to normal. 

 

Empty, wide open spaces are not attractive. Vehicle traffic is preferable to a barren street. Only heavy pedestrian traffic makes it work. If cruise ship traffic in 2025 is a fraction of what it is now maybe a lot of those tacky souvenir shops disappear. Maybe Government returns to the locals with better quality retail and restaurants. Will that mean more or less pedestrian traffic year round who knows.

[Nparker]

"Temporary" changes to Government Street: practical or ideological? You decide.

...Out of Ireland Irish Importers store owner Theresa Palmer said she understands the temporary changes to the street are necessary during the pandemic but does not think it should be a permanent step. “In normal times we would never want the street closed to vehicular traffic,” Palmer said. “We think there’s not enough density in the downtown core for this and also our climate doesn’t necessarily permit the ideal patio lifestyle year-round.”Palmer said many of her customers are older and prefer to drive rather than walk or bike. The buses from cruise ships also stop just outside the store, bringing more customers in...

https://www.vicnews....raffic-changes/

 

[spanky123]

"Temporary" changes to Government Street: practical or ideological? You decide.

 

The only way that the decision will be reversed is if retailers en masse make themselves heard to the Mayor and council and the politicians feel that it might impact their future electability. 

[GetLisaSomeHelps]

The only way that the decision will be reversed is if retailers en masse make themselves heard to the Mayor and council and the politicians feel that it might impact their future electability. 

 

And we know that businesses don't get a vote so that answers this question.

[Kungsberg]

"...in a special council meeting..... giving the City authority to temporarily “restrict or prohibit all or some types of traffic on a street…to facilitate outdoor commercial use.

The decision will see Government Street become a pedestrian-priority route from Humboldt to Yates Street and closed entirely to traffic between Fort Street and View Street starting June 8, in order to make more room for retailers and restaurants to provide services while social distancing."

https://www.vicnews....ority-corridor/

 

Photos are from Thursday mid-afternoon, walking up Government, the intersections at Humboldt, Courtney, Broughton and Fort. 

 

Early days yet, but so far I didn't notice any sign of any extended use of sidewalks by shops or pubs/restaurants, apart from the places that already had outdoor seating areas, and those have (so far) not expanded.

Almost no use of the newly-created pedestrian areas on the street itself by pedestrians, I think simply because at the moment, there's no real need to walk there. The normal sidewalks are easily usable (definitely not crowded right now, and no increased commercial usage there yet), and walking there brings you close to shop windows. This could change though if & when commerce uses more outdoor space on the sidewalks.

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[GetLisaSomeHelps]

This was needed during the last however many cruise ship seasons and future seasons.

[Mike K.]

Yes, that’s got to be the thinking, Kungsberg. Eventually the street could be where you’ll have to walk with businesses out on the sidewalk.

This has been a particularly wet Junuary so it’s looking a little miserable out there but in a few weeks we’ll be in weeks of sunshine at a time. That’ll bring people back out.

I do, however, look foreword to seeing the true density of our downtown in action without the tourists. We’ll get a good sense of how much more density is required to achieve a self-sustaining downtown area.

[Nparker]

Unless there is an unexpected influx of visitors from outside the region this summer, I doubt if this experiment is going to result in a large uptake by local pedestrians; therefore it will be made made permanent.

[Mike K.]

It’ll come down to what the businesses say. But it’s hard to gauge success of something when the variables have drastically changed (no tourists to compare the closure to a normal season).

[rjag]

was down there the other day after it was closed on 3 different times, to say it was deserted is an understatement. Shops all around that area were open and not a soul in sight. Its going to take a heck of a lot more than a few roadblocks to breathe life into that area. Going to need to encourage offices to reopen and encourage people to go out for lunch and shop again.

[Nparker]

It’ll come down to what the businesses say...

You mean like the way the businesses were consulted about the current closure?

[Mike K.]

There have been several years of discussions on this topic, so I don’t think this was a surprise beyond the implementation schedule that was so fast paced we wondered how something could move so fast, but apparently it can.

Let’s give it an honest attempt. If business starts spilling out onto the sidewalk and they can make a go of this, great.

I do, however, think that this could also become a liability for overall efforts as people will enjoy the novelty of it all and other businesses not among that strip might suffer as a result. Regardless, we won’t know what works and what doesn’t unless we try. Right now the City has some of its most valuable real-estate for taxation purposes facing economic ruin, so they’re motivated to act.

[lanforod]

I'd absolutely love it if it ended up as a small sample of Stuttgart's Konigstrasse or Denver's 16th. The latter could be a goal. Also, while it may be very quiet in the winter months, a well designed, really friendly looking one doesn't really allow for changing back to car use for the wet months, in my opinion.

 

Good article: https://www.curbed.c...ian-mall-design

[aastra]

 

Its going to take a heck of a lot more than a few roadblocks to breathe life into that area

 

Barbed wire? Land mines?

[Nparker]

Aside from a few restaurants, which businesses are going to "spill out" onto the street, beyond the width of the existing sidewalk? Which businesses are going to benefit from this closure October through March?