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2017 BC General Election + subsequent fallout


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#741 thundergun

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 09:52 AM

To me, Horgan has totally come across as a complainer who is all about blaming, but doesn’t provide viable solutions. Horgan’s plan is that they will form committees and working groups to formulate a plan once they have won.

 

That's my take as well. Haven't they had 4 years (or really since 2001) to come up with a solid plan?


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#742 Matt R.

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 09:59 AM

I seriously wonder what these poeple do, day in and day out, all year. Does anyone know?

Matt.

#743 jonny

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 10:12 AM

I seriously wonder what these poeple do, day in and day out, all year. Does anyone know?

Matt.

 

Which people?



#744 nagel

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 10:14 AM

He means politicians.
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#745 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 10:12 AM

I think the NDP have a serious problem.  There's an article over on the Tyee on why a person is choosing to vote Green, and the comment section is just a complete demonstration of why the NDP needs to take a long hard look at itself.  I think a lot of potential Green voters are would be Liberal voters who, for a bunch of very good reasons cannot or will note vote Liberal but would not vote NDP.  Yet, the NDP are out in force saying that Green voters are vote splitters who will cost the NDP the election - and I have to wonder, if a voter wasn't going to vote NDP but Liberal, why the heck wouldn't that be a vote that the NDP should support?  Even if it is a would be NDP vote that has gone Green, again why not support the exercise of democratic duty.  In my view anyone who spends enough time to think about the parties, the candidates and then votes - has done their duty and should be supported in doing that duty.  But apparently, not only are the NDP the party of NO, they're also the party of vote for us, or don't vote at all?    


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#746 johnk

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 11:03 AM

I will vote green fully knowing they will not come close to governing. But they will raise the awkward questions that need to be asked, something necessary for democracy to function properly. The other two gangs are each beholden to special interests and have too many barnacles clinging to their ankles
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#747 grantpalin

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 11:31 AM

I think the NDP have a serious problem.  There's an article over on the Tyee on why a person is choosing to vote Green, and the comment section is just a complete demonstration of why the NDP needs to take a long hard look at itself.  I think a lot of potential Green voters are would be Liberal voters who, for a bunch of very good reasons cannot or will note vote Liberal but would not vote NDP.  Yet, the NDP are out in force saying that Green voters are vote splitters who will cost the NDP the election - and I have to wonder, if a voter wasn't going to vote NDP but Liberal, why the heck wouldn't that be a vote that the NDP should support?  Even if it is a would be NDP vote that has gone Green, again why not support the exercise of democratic duty.  In my view anyone who spends enough time to think about the parties, the candidates and then votes - has done their duty and should be supported in doing that duty.  But apparently, not only are the NDP the party of NO, they're also the party of vote for us, or don't vote at all?    

Good lord, the comments on that blog post. I appreciate well-written posts, articles, comments etc but the rhetoric is wearing thin for me.


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#748 DavidSchell

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 12:20 PM

I think a lot of potential Green voters are would be Liberal voters who, for a bunch of very good reasons cannot or will note vote Liberal but would not vote NDP.  Yet, the NDP are out in force saying that Green voters are vote splitters who will cost the NDP the election - 

 

I heard that on the radio again this morning and just shook my head ...I have never voted NDP, but have voted Green in the past and plan on again this year. I know many people just like myself who don't support the NDP, but are voting Green.


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#749 Mike K.

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 12:31 PM

Ten years ago the NDP didn't have this problem, so they aren't used to competing for votes. But what they also have today that they didn't have ten years ago is a scapegoat.
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#750 zoomer

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 09:04 PM

I think the NDP have a serious problem.  There's an article over on the Tyee on why a person is choosing to vote Green, and the comment section is just a complete demonstration of why the NDP needs to take a long hard look at itself.  I think a lot of potential Green voters are would be Liberal voters who, for a bunch of very good reasons cannot or will note vote Liberal but would not vote NDP.  Yet, the NDP are out in force saying that Green voters are vote splitters who will cost the NDP the election - and I have to wonder, if a voter wasn't going to vote NDP but Liberal, why the heck wouldn't that be a vote that the NDP should support?  Even if it is a would be NDP vote that has gone Green, again why not support the exercise of democratic duty.  In my view anyone who spends enough time to think about the parties, the candidates and then votes - has done their duty and should be supported in doing that duty.  But apparently, not only are the NDP the party of NO, they're also the party of vote for us, or don't vote at all?    

 

Finally.. a post from A.J. that makes no sense!  ;) 

 

Disclaimer - I haven't decided who to vote for yet, there's actually many really bad scenarios that could happen with any party winning.

 

Political parties would be negligent if they DIDN'T try to convince you to vote for them, isn't that what campaigns are all about?! Why does the simple suggestion of strategic voting offend so many people? The Liberals tell us a vote for the NDP will destroy the province, isn't that just as offensive, and isn't that also telling us who NOT to vote for?  Where have you read that the NDP Party is telling people to stay home and not vote if they don't plan to vote for the NDP?

 

Last election the NDP played nice, no negative ads and it cost them.  Strategic voting is a thing, if any party didn't raise strategic voting they would be idiotic (keeping in mind that strategic voting doesn't appear to be widespread or overly effective).  No one is holding a gun to your head to vote strategically.  It's up to individual voters to determine if they'll vote for a third party hoping that finally this election they'll break through and change the landscape and be willing to take the risk of having the ruling party remaining in power for yet another term because of vote splitting.  It seems to me the Green and NDP platforms are very similar (with Greens being even more green so to speak), so I'll have no sympathy for Green supporters if all their worst nightmares are realized with another Liberal win. I'm not even saying people should vote strategically, I actually never have, but the concept doesn't offend me in the least - what does offend me is the politicians themselves!  Christie for her corruption, Weaver for his arrogance and gutter level comment in the debate "Oh, are you going to get mad at me and lose your temper like last week John?" and Horgan for slick policies soley designed to gain votes from target groups vs. a sound and thoughtful platform (although I suppose you could throw that charge against the Liberals too).

 

If the polls go south and Horgan gets desperate he should state that he'll offer the Environment post to Weaver (who of course will reject that outright) in a NDP government.  If the NDP does win he should probably do that regardless to try and consume the Greens. 



#751 57WestHills

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 04:50 AM

I think the NDP have a serious problem. There's an article over on the Tyee on why a person is choosing to vote Green, and the comment section is just a complete demonstration of why the NDP needs to take a long hard look at itself. I think a lot of potential Green voters are would be Liberal voters who, for a bunch of very good reasons cannot or will note vote Liberal but would not vote NDP. Yet, the NDP are out in force saying that Green voters are vote splitters who will cost the NDP the election - and I have to wonder, if a voter wasn't going to vote NDP but Liberal, why the heck wouldn't that be a vote that the NDP should support? Even if it is a would be NDP vote that has gone Green, again why not support the exercise of democratic duty. In my view anyone who spends enough time to think about the parties, the candidates and then votes - has done their duty and should be supported in doing that duty. But apparently, not only are the NDP the party of NO, they're also the party of vote for us, or don't vote at all?


What you describe here is basically me. I won't vote Liberal. I'm a bit afraid I'm on the wrong side of the NDP class war, and I find both leaders inappropriate for the job. I know almost nothing about the Greens - but I will vote - so probably for them. A day or two before the polls I will probably get motivated enough to read their platform to ensure I don't find it horrendously objectionable.

Normally I have pretty strong political opinions. This election has been so uninspiring it feels like an effort just to vote.
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#752 Rob Randall

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 06:43 AM

Normally I have pretty strong political opinions. This election has been so uninspiring it feels like an effort just to vote.


Not like the simpler days of yore, when old foes (frenemies?) Bennett and Barrett would square off, usually with the NDP getting some devastating jabs in before the Socreds managed to score a win.

Today's Liberals seem saddled with the same voter fatigue that plagues all long-serving governments. Clark seems to wear the cloak of "let's get this over with, I deserve this" entitlement that doomed Hillary's campaign.

But I still think Clark will win a small majority.

#753 RFS

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 07:43 AM

I find BC elections are always a bit apathetic. no body LOVES any of the options, we all just hold our noses and vote. Christy is the ultimate post-political, retail politician. she is everything to everyone and absorbs left wing and right wing policies as she finds electorally expedient. She truly transcends mere poltical scale and runs more like a business, tweaking her product as consumer tastes change. the BC libs are like the borg. In a lot of ways I think she is probably ahead of her time and sorta the politican of the future. but what are you gonna do, vote for the socialists? or the eco warriors who plan to crash the housing market and thus BC economy? In my case I grit my teeth and vote for the offensively inoffensive liberals
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#754 grantpalin

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 10:51 AM

For anyone still making sense of the differences and similarities between parties, I found a couple of resources that may be useful.

 

Youtube video

 

Side by side comparison



#755 Mike K.

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 11:58 AM

I wish my Liberal candidate wasn't someone who's more cannon fodder than a serious contestant. You can't expect to get elected (as a Liberal, this doesn't necessarily hold true for NDP candidates thanks for the Orange Machine) if you've been absent for the last four years and have zero name recognition.

So that's my gripe with the party. Too often in our neck of the woods they have expendable candidates (or no candidate at all). Now contrast that with the NDP who put forward candidates with some name recognition (Casavant) or who hold high-level local positions (Dean).

Luckily Esquimalt has Desjardins, someone who has the wherewithal to be a great MLA. But of course Mitzi Dean with the Orange Machine behind her - even though her name carries little weight to someone outside of the sphere of social services - is somehow the front runner.

Ironically Dean, who is spearheading the new Pacific Centre for WellBeing underway on Goldstream Ave in Colwood, outlines in her NDP profile that the Liberals have forgotten who they work for and that they gave tax breaks to millionaires, but on the flip side the provincial government is lined up to help fund Dean's Wellness Centre. The latter, of course, is lost on voters.

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#756 zoomer

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 12:41 PM

Luckily Esquimalt has Desjardins, someone who has the wherewithal to be a great MLA.


Huh.. feeling ok Mike? ;)

The same Barb who ultimately voted for sewage treatment but cost us all tens of millions more due to the delay. Former police board chair..and all that entailed. Opponent of amalgamation, mayor of Esquimalt which somehow has stagnated and been irrelevant the past decade plus.
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#757 Mike K.

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 01:17 PM

Hmmm, well when you put it that way...  :teacher:


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#758 spanky123

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 01:38 PM

So that's my gripe with the party. Too often in our neck of the woods they have expendable candidates (or no candidate at all). Now contrast that with the NDP who put forward candidates with some name recognition (Casavant) or who hold high-level local positions (Dean).

 

Respected candidates do the math and determine that it would be harmful to their personal brand to run in a riding that they have no chance of winning.


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#759 bluefox

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 07:31 PM



I think the NDP have a serious problem.  There's an article over on the Tyee on why a person is choosing to vote Green, and the comment section is just a complete demonstration of why the NDP needs to take a long hard look at itself.  I think a lot of potential Green voters are would be Liberal voters who, for a bunch of very good reasons cannot or will note vote Liberal but would not vote NDP.  Yet, the NDP are out in force saying that Green voters are vote splitters who will cost the NDP the election - and I have to wonder, if a voter wasn't going to vote NDP but Liberal, why the heck wouldn't that be a vote that the NDP should support?  Even if it is a would be NDP vote that has gone Green, again why not support the exercise of democratic duty.  In my view anyone who spends enough time to think about the parties, the candidates and then votes - has done their duty and should be supported in doing that duty.  But apparently, not only are the NDP the party of NO, they're also the party of vote for us, or don't vote at all?    

 

Because it's easier and more logical to them to fail to lead, propose policy alternatives and solutions, or give people a reason to vote for them, when there's an easy scapegoat to blame for their failings. They are also lazy enough to think the "we're not the centre-right party" strategy is what will get them elected when it's never worked.

 

It also gives them an opening to be as nasty as possible — and, yes, there are tons of downright nasty people in the BC NDP — and yet fail to grasp that this is actually what tends to drive people away from them as the campaign rolls on.

 

I have never seen the level and extent of disrespect, derision, condescension and loathing, from any other party (or its members), that I've seen from New Democrats.

 

The funniest part of all of this to me is that while the NDP and its partisan hacks take a proverbial dump on anyone "stupid enough" to not vote for them, they forget that the NDP has won precisely zero head-to-head elections (i.e. with no third party running).


Edited by bluefox, 29 April 2017 - 07:33 PM.

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#760 Rob Randall

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:29 AM

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