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[Rock Bay] BC Hydro land | unknown | land remediated


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#141 Nparker

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 03:34 PM

We really should have just filled in Rock Bay, btw, and made some new land...

With some vision this portion of Rock Bay could be outstanding. Personally, I'd like to see a pedestrian bridge connect the site to Bay Street. 

rock bay.JPG


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#142 2F2R

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 04:11 PM

With some vision this portion of Rock Bay could be outstanding. Personally, I'd like to see a pedestrian bridge connect the site to Bay Street. 

rock bay.JPG

 

I think the key words are "with some vision" ... I think having vision and the will and ability to turn dreams to reality is not Victoria's strength ... in fact, fill in the blank ____________ 


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#143 Nparker

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 04:15 PM

... I think having vision and the will and ability to turn dreams to reality is not Victoria's strength ...

Alas, you are quite right.  :( 

(ps: you should remove the paperclip from your post above)



#144 AllseeingEye

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 04:24 PM

Well the Battersea image, and NParker's comments, both touched on a key point that IMO is sorely lacking in Victoria: "vision".

 

A truly world class city like London can and does pull off something like that with relative ease in comparison to here. Consider the hullabaloo in Victoria for anything over 4 stories with a just few bits of glass and steel incorporated into it. Something like that can and is studied literally to death locally, often resulting in nothing but more studies. Look at how long a small building like the Janion sat there; ditto for two tiny nondescript structures on the Northern Junk site. Who knows how long that proposal will sit until its approved?

 

I agree Rock Bay could and should be something special - but I rather doubt it at least not in this lifetime given how long that whole area has just sat there rotting away.

 

I get a rather depressing view of it each day 5 days a week on my bus commute into work; that entire area from Douglas Street down to the water, from Bay Street in the north to Herald Street to the south is awful to look at; shabby rundown buildings even some quite large lots that have nothing on them including at least one very large property that is literally nothing but a field of overgrown grass and weeds. It could and should be so much more - especially abutting the downtown core as it does - but it will require one hell of a Vision, not to mention political will, to make it a reality.


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#145 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 04:26 PM

We board up the checkerboard pavilion decades ago and only now got around to doing something with it.


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#146 G-Man

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 04:30 PM

That Battersea plan is amazing. I still think we should be looking to host one of those third tier expos and have this land be part of it. Join it with more on the vacant parking lots downtown and Ogden point and we fix three problems at once. Have it all linked by a new street car.
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#147 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 04:39 PM

I don't a streetcar is even possible in the environment we live in now.  All the red tape to make it safe and accessible makes it too expensive.


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#148 AllseeingEye

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 04:41 PM

That Battersea plan is amazing. I still think we should be looking to host one of those third tier expos and have this land be part of it. Join it with more on the vacant parking lots downtown and Ogden point and we fix three problems at once. Have it all linked by a new street car.

Isn't it just? But of course something like that takes vision, planning and above all innovation - attributes, especially the latter, that I do not readily associate with the CoV.


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#149 tedward

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 09:22 AM

We really should have just filled in Rock Bay, btw, and made some new land.

 

Hey, that was my idea! ;)


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#150 Baro

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 03:25 PM

I don't a streetcar is even possible in the environment we live in now.  All the red tape to make it safe and accessible makes it too expensive.

It's shocking how bad we are at building transit.  I was reading some stats and per-km costs a while ago and the same tram line in north america costs like half or even less in europe and other places.  A lot of the blame was put on red tape and the different legal systems.  We have to do so many more studies and have open bidding processes for every sub and consultant and consulting consultant's consulting engineering consultant.  We also often get into incestuous situations where the company building the project is the same as the company designing or engineering it, so it's in their best interests to inflate the construction costs in the design.


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#151 Cassidy

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 05:28 PM

We really should have just filled in Rock Bay, btw, and made some new land.

I'd agree completely with the "filling in" part.

Believing as I do in a fully working harbor, they should put more lite-industry into the "new" Rock Bay.

 

Of course they could do all kinds of cool things with walkways, breweries, restaurants, parks, etc ... but the chances of the City approving anything that cool are about 0%.

 

So put in more lite-industry ('cause it's already there), keep the harbour working, keep the harbour animated, and don't let the NIMBY's turn the entire harbour into condos, condos, and...."yes" .... more condo's.

 

Seriously though, with a concrete operation on one side of Rock Bay, and an asphalt operation on the other ... best just stick with lite-industry and just accept that the City will never do anything cool here related to pedestrians relaxing and enjoying some food and drink.


Edited by Cassidy, 06 March 2017 - 05:29 PM.


#152 AllseeingEye

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 08:05 AM

This is appropriate I suppose given the current state of Rock Bay - we now know the area will be used to host the staging and prep for the upcoming sewage plant construction project for at least the next four years (see the first bullet point in the following T-C story from today):

 

http://www.timescolo...hing-1.11118278



#153 Kungsberg

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 09:20 AM

First Nations set to buy remediated Rock Bay land, a prime waterfront site

 

https://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/first-nations-set-to-buy-remediated-rock-bay-land-a-prime-waterfront-site-1.23833451

 

A conditional sale agreement has been reached for the Songhees and Esquimalt First Nations to buy 4.5 acres of remediated B.C. Hydro land in Rock Bay.

The sale is expected to be finalized early in 2020.

 

Combined, the properties cover 7.5 acres

 

The project team also includes Victoria architect Franc D’Ambrosio.

 

“Bringing this land into the market after 60 years will be a game-changer for this part of Victoria and for our communities.”

“I think the last thing we would want to do is develop all of it at once”

“Because A) I don’t think the city of Victoria could accommodate it but B) We’d end up competing against ourselves.

“It is not the appropriate approach for a market which is robust but is not huge. It’s Victoria. It’s not New York City.”

 

These lands were among the most contaminated in Canada. It cost close to $140 million in public money and took a dozen years to clean. About 290,000 tonnes of contaminated sediment was hauled from the area.

Historically, industrial waste, including coal tar from a coal gasification plant, were used as fill in Rock Bay Harbour.

 



#154 Mike K.

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 09:24 AM

As we’ve surmised would be the case.

So the question now is, will the land be home to a downtown casino?

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#155 Mike K.

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 09:39 AM

tjv, I hid your post. That’s inappropriate for this forum.

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#156 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 09:45 AM

as taxpayers picking up the entire bill do we ever get to see the sale terms?

one of the nations has prime waterfront property off admirals they have never fully developed. will they be more successful here?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 25 May 2019 - 09:48 AM.


#157 tjv

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 09:54 AM

tjv, I hid your post. That’s inappropriate for this forum.

it was sarcasm.  Regardless its nice that the hardworking taxpayers of this country will pay for another indian reserve.  without knowing the total area of the rock bay property that land is worth around $70-80 million

 

I look forward to see what the indians will do with it.  I would hope the indians as part of the deal submitted a business plan to show what they will do with it before we wrote a blank cheque



#158 Mike K.

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 09:56 AM

The word “Indian” is no longer a word used to describe members of First Nations. I know you know this, so cut it out, please.
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#159 Nparker

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 10:02 AM

...“I think the last thing we would want to do is develop all of it at once”... 
A) I don’t think the city of Victoria could accommodate it...
B) We’d end up competing against ourselves...

  C) In Victoria we like to play the l-o-n-g game when it comes to waterfront development. So we'll probably just turn this into a parking lot for 70-80 years before we start the planning process



#160 Cassidy

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 10:19 AM

If it becomes First Nations land (as it appears it will), what they do with it is 100% up to them.

 

You've got reconciliation as a major part of the political platform at the local level, and reconciliation doesn't involve the taxpayers of Victoria participating or having a say in what First Nations do with their land.

It's also likely that zoning regulations will also be waved to some degree, and that could pretty much result in anything, of any size down around the Inner Harbour.

 

I don't personally see the point of selling (at below market value) or giving prime downtown land "back" to First Nation communities who have long not been resident on the land in question ... but one of the prime by-products of SJW focused reconciliation is settlers guilt ... a guilt that can only be assuaged (apparently) by obliging taxpayers to "give back" or sell for pennies on the dollar to First Nations whatever public lands can be sent their way.


Edited by Cassidy, 25 May 2019 - 10:23 AM.


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