163 replies to this topic

[HB]

You make it sound as though,  expensive cars are bought and paid for in full by their drivers  without realizing that a huge percentage of new and nearly new cars on the roads are not  paid in full by the "owners" and are owned in part by banks and brokers who finance the purchase price  of said vehicles.

 

When it comes to rich or perceived rich its all in the eye of the beholder

Edited by HB, 20 March 2017 - 09:51 PM.

[exc911ence]

I always check the zoning around property I'm interested in, not just for the property itself (in a rural environment, folks should check their properties mineral rights as well - but that's another story).

 

These protestors should have checked the zoning before they purchased their homes and property, obviously thinking that they were buying in an area of forest and farms - they were actually buying in an area of heavy industry.

 

A quick Google Maps check will show the racetracks immediate neighbors are Dogwood Lumber, Bings Creek Solid Waste Management, Surespan Ready Mix, Stone Pacific Contracting, Apex Soil and Landscaping Supply, Duncan Paving Company, and a few others.

 

All this to say that the racetrack is located in an area zoned for heavy industry, with no noise bylaws in place, and apparently completely within their rights to do exactly what they're doing.

 

I understand the neighbors dislike of noise ... but those folks probably should have expected noise when purchasing a home or property located right next to one of Cowichan's heaviest industry locations.

 

You'd think that but then these are the same people who buy condos in the Inner Harbour and then complain about the seaplane and shipping noise, or the ones who buy beside the airport then complain about the airplanes.

 

Humans are anything but an intelligent race.

 

I'm surprised that good old Western Speedway still exists with all of its new upscale neighbours on Bear Mountain.

Edited by exc911ence, 21 March 2017 - 07:41 AM.

[Mike K.]

We're also comparing a rinky-dink 200-wide oval race track to one that is nearly 500-meters from its northwest-most to southeast-most corners, and snakes its way around to make a several kilometre long track that also includes a 320-meter straight-away.

 

I don't think anybody living within one kilometre of a saw mill is concerned about noise from that mill, but I can see how folks living within two or three kilometres of a supercar racing facility might be. Those cars are loud, very loud, and while I'm a car guy, I'm also familiar with that area of the Cowichan Valley and I can appreciate the frustration those folks feel.

 

I mean, industrial facilities are not necessarily correlated with constant noise upwards of seven days per week, right? But race tracks? Kinda, yes.

 

Again, no skin in the game here. I'm sure if given the chance to drive a supercar or a sports car on that track I'd take it in a heartbeat and I'm certain it's an amazing facility to the folks who use it.

[VicHockeyFan]

Western Speedway makes a lot more noise than the new track.   But just a few hours per week.

[Mike K.]

I'm not so sure. Check out this R8. The track even hosted an exclusive R8 event last year.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxZEmLsewE8

[VicHockeyFan]

Up to 24 cars on the Speedway track at once, they do not care if they go through a set of tires a night, plus they have no exhaust system to speak of, super-modified is allowed.   So they are louder, I think.

[rjag]

I'm not so sure. Check out this R8. The track even hosted an exclusive R8 event last year.

https://www.youtube....h?v=GxZEmLsewE8

Mike that R8 wouldn't make it out of 2nd gear at the track and wouldn't even come close to redlining. Those cars like the 911 are too big and overpowered for such a small track, heck I can barely get 5-6 seconds in 3rd gear in my Boxster on the straight

Edited by rjag, 21 March 2017 - 08:03 AM.

[Mike K.]

Oh I can imagine it wouldn't make it out of second gear, but a pretty loud second gear it would be.

 

I know guys with cars like these. They're loud by design when the pedal is pressed, even without modifications. There's no way you can sidestep noise when you're dealing with extremely powerful vehicles built with one purpose in mind.

 

But as per VHF's comment, at least they're not straight-pipe V8's that sound like machine guns when they stumble around an oval.

[Cassidy]

I think the "no noise bylaw" aspect of the discussion takes note of the fact that any industrial area may (or may not) have excess noise associated with the activities taking place in that industrial area.

There's no guarantee one way or another to folks who choose to cosy up to an industrially zoned area.

 

That these homeowners have lived alongside some heavy industry that for years may not have made an excess of loud noise, the point of industrial zoning is to accommodate those industries that might at some point make a lot of noise.

 

I have complete sympathy with the concept of it sucking to have a race track suddenly built relatively close to your long time abode ... but in this situation it's not really an issue for the race track to solve, and Cowichan long ago deemed the area as industrial, with the associated lack of any sort of noise bylaw, and allowing assorted light and heavy industry to set up shop there.

 

IMO, there's really not much that can be done in this case. The race track owners built within the legal zoning, and even if the zoning was now changed, all existing facilities would have to be grandfathered into allowing to remain until such time as they sold their properties.

 

I suspect that the homeowners have no legitimate legal recourse, and that their very best course of action might be to attempt some constructive sit-down meetings with the track owners to see if they can find any common ground.

It's a safe bet that the track owners don't want years of these kinds of negative stories in the press any more than the homeowners do.

[rjag]

Oh I can imagine it wouldn't make it out of second gear, but a pretty loud second gear it would be.

 

I know guys with cars like these. They're loud by design when the pedal is pressed, even without modifications. There's no way you can sidestep noise when you're dealing with extremely powerful vehicles built with one purpose in mind.

 

But as per VHF's comment, at least they're not straight-pipe V8's that sound like machine guns when they stumble around an oval.

 

Was at my Porsche dealer this morning and I mentioned to him about the latest article. He said it was in reference to when we were up there a week last Sunday. 

 

Heres some video of last summer and then last week, you tell me how loud it is.

 

https://youtu.be/oHoHdk7aaxc

 

https://youtu.be/gPG3BidB_d8

 

https://youtu.be/d9-KV1JFBZk

 

https://youtu.be/NIG7jBE_kwk

Edited by rjag, 21 March 2017 - 12:14 PM.

[VicHockeyFan]

Not a club member?

 

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[rjag]

Anyone want a cool job? Pay isnt great but I'm sure there will be some pretty exciting cars to drive!

 

http://www.gain-vi.c...t-track-worker/

[CowichanDude]

So a few of points...

 

I suspect that the homeowners have no legitimate legal recourse, and that their very best course of action might be to attempt some constructive sit-down meetings with the track owners to see if they can find any common ground.

 

1. Area residents (of which I am one) tried on multiple occasions to have "constructive sit-down meetings with the track". Residents came to these meetings with noise management plans from other facilities to use as a template - instead of using them as a starting point, the track walked away each time, claiming any noise limits at all would make the track financially unviable. 

 

2. There is plenty of legal recourse, as current track activities are not allowed under existing zoning. This is now a full blown lawsuit, filed as of last Monday:

 

https://www.sahtlamn...l-Press-Release

 

https://www.sahtlamn...6/09/Lawsuit-QA

 

3. There can be an endless discussion about whether the municipality screwed up by not requiring a rezoning (likely GAIN's position, when this gets to court) or whether GAIN flat out lied about what their track activities would be (position of some municipal councillors, supported by existing documentation). We'll never resolve that here, and really, it doesn't matter much at this point.

 

What does matter is a judge will rule in late summer on whether the residents are right in asserting this is a massive zoning violation. If a judge rules in our favour, the track will be required to immediately cease operation, until the zoning is resolved. That will require a lengthy and very public rezoning process.

 

You can form your own conclusions on lawsuit viability by reading up on the full history of how this track was enabled, complete with fully documented references, here:

 

https://www.sahtlamn...-The-Full-Story

 

Actually, it's not quite a full history. Some bits where left out as not relevant to the timeline. For example, the development permit application filed by GAIN specifically said "street legal vehicles", which is NOT what they are doing. The environmental assessor was told "street legal vehicles, one vehicle on the track at a time" - neither of those conditions have been abided by.

 

4. It needs to be clear that the issue with the track isn't about having Driver Training Days for the Rolex set and their new baby Cayman or whatever. Nobody cares about those, because they are no louder than normal street traffic. And it's certainly not about a facility that caters to 1%ers, as some of us ourselves are in that category.

 

The core issue is the track is running full blown race cars - literally actual race cars - in timed events, at volume levels that will make your ears bleed, at unscheduled times, with literally zero noise mitigation, on a racetrack built on the side of a hill so the sound radiates unobstructed for miles.

 

The whole thing is a colossal f-up of epic proportions. This is currently the only track in North America that operates anywhere near a residential area with no noise management plan and no noise mitigation. And it was built without a single public hearing. Nothing is ever a slam dunk when it comes to court....but if I were a paying member...I'd be looking for a refund before the whole thing goes irretrievably sideways. Because good luck getting your $50k-$200k out of a broke numbered company in Ontario...

[Mike K.]

Thank you for the comprehensive write-up. I had a feeling that when noise complaints started to emerge, but which were quickly downplayed, that the situation would quickly escalate. Please keep us updated.

[dasmo]

As a total outsider with no skin in the game here whatsoever, I think folks who live within about 1,000 meters of the new track were dealt a blow.

 

Noise from fast moving supercars and sportier road cars can be intense at high revs, even with 100% street legal components. A buddy with an M3 can startle bystanders when he opens it up and that's within the confines of the city where he doesn't floor it like he would on a track.

 

If you go to Prior Lake or Thetis Lake Park on a summer night when there's racing going on at Western Speedway you can hear the vehicles non-stop. It's a constant drone in the background with varying levels of pitch depending on what's going on, and the pier on the lake is exactly 2.5km from the track.

 

There are hundreds of homes within a 2.5km radius of the Cowichan track, and some people live literally across the highway from the property.

True. But the difference is it's only during that time. Plus most building in the area has occurred after the Speedway. I hate to sound like a socialist but the fact that it's also a community place where peoples kids work, where they build cars and race them, where they go to watch hit to pass and eat bad hot dogs. That it is part of the community makes a difference to how people react to the noise.  Recognize you are irritating to those that are not participating and find a way to make it work. If they ignore the community they teleported into they might piss off the wrong person....  

[Cassidy]

It's good to hear the position of the residents here in the forum.

 

I'm a firm believer in "who's there first" when it comes to these kinds of issues, and as much as I think the residents are likely to be unhappy with the results of their lawsuit, there's no question they were there first, and that fact should enter into any decision made.

And as much as it may seem this is a case of the residents against the racetrack, it's really starting to shape up as a case of the residents against the Municipality.

 

Similarly, Western Speedway was there long before 80+% of the houses that can hear the noise from the track were even built. 

Western Speedway was essentially built out in the middle of a forest, and what limited housing there was in the area certainly didn't ever register any complaints about noise, or Western Speedway itself.

In fact, back in the day, long before the overpass ... the traffic coming out of Western after a big night was brutal ... often taking an hour+ just to get back onto the Island Highway. Residents were stuck in their homes during this traffic jam, and yet they still didn't complain.

Residents at the time viewed Western Speedway as part of their community, and were happy to have it there. Indeed, most in the community were Western Speedway fans themselves.

 

It's pretty obvious though, that there is no love lost between the residents and the racetrack in Cowichan ... despite the fact that the residents seem to have their real beef with the Municipality.

[spanky123]

^Unless what CowichanDude said was correct in that the zoning was based on the condition(s) that only street legal cars be used and that only one car be on the track at a given time. This looks like it is starting to play out like the SIA vs Shawnigan issue although the MSM won't be covering this story and putting pressure on the district.

[VicHockeyFan]

^Unless what CowichanDude said was correct in that the zoning was based on the condition(s) that only street legal cars be used and that only one car be on the track at a given time. 

 

I'm guessing whatever approvals there were, was not "conditional" on much, but it was with the understanding.  SIA just might have changed their ideas after they were up and running.  I also think the definition of "street-legal" is pretty broad.

[spanky123]

I'm guessing whatever approvals there were, was not "conditional" on much, but it was with the understanding.  SIA just might have changed their ideas after they were up and running.  I also think the definition of "street-legal" is pretty broad.

 

I would think that the simple test for street legal is whether a car has a license plate.

Edited by spanky123, 13 June 2017 - 07:30 AM.

[Mike K.]

There are strict definitions of what is and isn't street legal.

It usually pertains to exhaust systems and mufflers. No cat? Not legal. No muffler? Not legal. On the track not having certain components makes a difference.