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The new Douglas Street plan (2015) - Hillside through downtown divided lanes


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#1 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 03:06 PM

Here is the whole thing in ***pdf:   http://downtownvicto...raft8_print.pdf

 

Bah, 20-year timeline.  By then I presume most if not all cars will be self-driving.

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#2 gumgum

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 03:08 PM

Another Douglas plan. How many is it now? Edit guess I should have looked at it first. This is for d/t.


Edited by gumgum, 28 April 2015 - 03:12 PM.


#3 Coreyburger

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 03:21 PM

To be fair, this is mostly a re-statement of the Victoria Regional Rapid Transit Project's notional Douglas St. cross-section from 2011.



#4 Mike K.

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 03:22 PM

Here are a few more images from the report.

 

Douglas-1.jpg

 

Douglas-3.jpg

 

Douglas-2.jpg

 

Douglas-4.jpg


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#5 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 03:23 PM

First of all, if you were to close off Douglas, to just two lanes of traffic, how would that look during rush?  I'm sure not good.

 

And how does the transition work at Hillside?  You've got the busiest and most complex intersection in all of town, and that's the point where you are going to find a way to get buses over to one side of the road, cars to the other, and bikes into the centre?  That seems near impossible to me.

 

I mean, imagine a car being behind a bus, as they come into town on Douglas, stopped at Hillside, in the curb lane (where they just installed a bus stop on that island).  Light turns green, bus heads over left, bike next to your car, is supposed to go centre and the car is supposed to go right.  How the heck is all that gonna happen safely and efficiently?  My guess is the car, being behind a bus, and unable to see signs, it'll just follow the bus.  Bike will probably stay right.


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#6 Nparker

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 03:31 PM

The good news is like most long-term, local "visionary plans" (I'm looking at you "David Foster Way", Belleville Terminal, lower-Wharf parking lots, downtown Art Gallery and a new Central Library), with the usual inertia, over planning and studies out the yin-yang, there is a very good chance that everyone able to drive a car, ride a bike or even walk today will be long gone before this ever sees fruition.


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#7 Mike K.

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 03:39 PM

Add to that 

 

- commuter rail

- LRT

- performing arts centre

- Budget lot (lawn bowling green, etc, at Belleville)

- Dockside Green

- sewage treatment


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#8 aastra

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 03:41 PM

If this vision comes to fruition you'll probably never hear another complaint ever again about the lack of masts, guy-wires, overhead cables, and suspended illuminated art elements in downtown Victoria. So at least that issue will be resolved, if nothing else.


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#9 aastra

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 04:09 PM

Seriously, I don't know what to make of these comments in that document:

 

"The square is almost invisible from Douglas Street because of the lawn and bus stop. It would also be great to have some cafes facing the square to draw more people in."

 

Yes, cafes would be great but what does the visibility of the square from your car on Douglas have to do with anything? What's the implication here? Victorians don't know that Centennial Square is there? Maybe we think motorists would be inclined to pull over and enjoy the square if only they could see into it a little more easily? It's silly.

 

"City Hall needs more space in front to create a more urban civic space."

 

I just feel exasperated when I read stuff like this. Maybe we should blow down another full city block to create more space around City Hall? What, Centennial Square isn't enough sheer space as it is? The idea that old city cores can be saved by "opening things up" is snake oil. Integration and re-integration (to undo the damage caused when things were "opened up") needs to be the goal. Most of the successful efforts focus on integration and re-integration and most of the failures focus on opening things up.

 

I really think we're going to continue making the same well-established mistakes for decades to come.


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#10 Bingo

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 08:45 PM

I think the plan to draw more people into the downtown area will back fire. Who is going to ride their bike into town and go shopping and have dinner with the family and then ride home in the rain, but then again if the binners can do it...



#11 sebberry

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 09:50 PM

Without any plan to bring residential density to the core, this is a stupid plan.  The money is much better spent elsewhere.  Tidying up what we already have would be a good start. 


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#12 amor de cosmos

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 06:53 AM

the city has that plan to have 10,000 more people living downtown in I forget how many years, so they're on top of that. re: the space around city hall I think it makes perfect sense to try to find a way to integrate it with douglas st since there's a separation from the part around the fountain implied by the change in level there, garden & big sequoia. so centennial square is really in two pieces. they're not thinking of integrating it with the nothingness on the lower level, but the opposite direction towards douglas st. or I guess you could think of it as extending the douglas st streetscape with all its activity, etc into the upper part of centennial square which sounds great to me. & since the block across the street is being rebuilt why not look for other things to do around there, just because it's city hall? especially if the city is going to have space in that new building is might be expecting people to need to cross there. pp 22-23 of the pdf spell it out pretty clearly.


Edited by amor de cosmos, 29 April 2015 - 06:54 AM.

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#13 Mike K.

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 07:03 AM

10,000 new residents won't happen in our lifetime if the density we're seeing now is all that's built.
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#14 jonny

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 07:30 AM

The only times I've traveled along Douglas and thought "wow, this street could really use some freshening up" is when I look at some of the derelict buildings north of Pandora.

 

I'm confused as to what issues this plan is trying to solve. The biggest issue IMO is that there hasn't been enough private investment in downtown. This won't solve any of that.


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#15 Mike K.

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 07:31 AM

Exactly.

 

What we desperately need is to get rid of the crap architecture that litters this street.


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#16 jonny

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 07:33 AM

Exactly.

 

What we desperately need is to get rid of the crap architecture that litters this street.

 

Steps 1 and 2 are to get rid of the boarded up buildings and redevelop the parking lots.


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#17 Nparker

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 07:52 AM

The only way to really increase residential density downtown (and make anything like this Douglas Street plan even remotely viable) is to get rid of restrictive building heights within the downtown core. Let developers build as tall as is financially viable. This is a situation where market forces have the best chance of creating an appropriate design guideline. Let City Hall push for good design and quality materials and get out of the business of dictating height. Since I doubt we will ever see this happen, I suspect the Douglas Street dream will never become reality.


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#18 thundergun

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 08:12 AM

I do like the ideas around sidewalks, particularly painting and increased lighting. It would make pedestrians much more visible and add some visual vibrancy to some key intersections.

As for the LRT, I'm with VHF on self-driving cars. 


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#19 sebberry

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 08:19 AM

I do like the ideas around sidewalks, particularly painting and increased lighting. It would make pedestrians much more visible and add some visual vibrancy to some key intersections.

As for the LRT, I'm with VHF on self-driving cars. 

 

I've always liked some nice architectural lighting.  It would go a long way to making the existing downtown core appear more lively and inviting while providing illumination for pedestrians to safely walk around carelessly discarded needles. 


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#20 Mike K.

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 08:48 AM

Those lights would be a distraction to drivers in the most dangerous of places for all users of a road -- an intersection.


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