164 replies to this topic

[Rob Randall]

They did a couple of loops around Downtown just now. 

[SimonH]

The F 18 buzzed downtown Sidney 3 times  around midday.

[sebberry]

I waited nearly an hour on Mt Tolmie for this shot

 

[todd]

I tried to get one they were faster than my camera.

[LJ]

We timed our golf game perfectly today, took a beer break at the top of Bear Mountain and watched the show.

[sebberry]

A few more shots I got https://flic.kr/s/aHsmWedGFy

[Nparker]

Very nice sebberry. 

[Mike K.]

Whoa yeah, nice work.

[Victoria Watcher]

The team is set to train at CFB Comox from mid-April to mid-May, with dates to be confirmed in the new year.

431 Air Demonstration Squadron consists of approximately 80 personnel, 24 of whom comprise the show team that travels during the show season. They have been a fixture at airshows and entertaining audiences across North America since 1971.

 

The CF18 Demonstration Team has also released its schedule for 2022, starting in the U.S. in June. The team has two stops in B.C. – July 16 and 17 in Terrace and Aug. 5 to 8 in Abbotsford. The team has not yet announced its demonstration pilot for the upcoming season, nor has it confirmed it will practice in the Comox Valley prior to the airshow season.

 

https://www.vicnews....ncouver-island/

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 December 2021 - 02:45 PM.

[Spy Black]

 

The CF18 Demonstration Team ........

 

 

Soon to be the CF-35 Demonstration Team.

[AllseeingEye]

Soon to be the CF-35 Demonstration Team.

 

You know something SB, or are you just facetiously spit-balling tongue-in-cheek?

[Spy Black]

Just spitballing, and seeing if I can prod some discussion to liven up this thread

 

Now that the Super Hornet has officially been removed from the list of approved aircraft, I just can't ever see the Gripen being selected by Canada.

Primarily because the Gripen is one generation old already, doesn't have stealth, and doesn't have advanced battlefield connectivity and awareness ... and beyond lower operating costs it has little to offer Canada when one looks 20+ years down the road from today.

 

The Gripen is a fine aircraft, but it won't (IMO) be selected for Canada.

 

Future NATO and Arctic commitments will require massive amounts of battlefield awareness and intelligence connectivity ... something only the ©F-35 can offer.

Although it lacks in some performance metrics when compared to the F-22, the F-35 actually far surpasses even the F-22 in the entire field of battlefield intelligence and connectivity.

 

The F-35 is a superior aircraft to the Gripen and Super Hornet in every regard.

Folks who bring up the single engine as a reason that Canada shouldn't consider the F--35 don't understand that the F-35 has over  twice the thrust of the CF-18, and further that the CF-18 can't safely "fly" on a single engine to begin with.  A CF- 18 (or Super Hornet) can barely fly on one engine, and can barely land on one engine ... rendering the "twin engine" safety argument hollow and rather pointless.

[AllseeingEye]

Just spitballing, and seeing if I can prod some discussion to liven up this thread

 

Now that the Super Hornet has officially been removed from the list of approved aircraft, I just can't ever see the Gripen being selected by Canada.

Primarily because the Gripen is one generation old already, doesn't have stealth, and doesn't have advanced battlefield connectivity and awareness ... and beyond lower operating costs it has little to offer Canada when one looks 20+ years down the road from today.

 

The Gripen is a fine aircraft, but it won't (IMO) be selected for Canada.

 

Future NATO and Arctic commitments will require massive amounts of battlefield awareness and intelligence connectivity ... something only the ©F-35 can offer.

Although it lacks in some performance metrics when compared to the F-22, the F-35 actually far surpasses even the F-22 in the entire field of battlefield intelligence and connectivity.

 

The F-35 is a superior aircraft to the Gripen and Super Hornet in every regard.

Folks who bring up the single engine as a reason that Canada shouldn't consider the F--35 don't understand that the F-35 has over  twice the thrust of the CF-18, and further that the CF-18 can't safely "fly" on a single engine to begin with.  A CF- 18 (or Super Hornet) can barely fly on one engine, and can barely land on one engine ... rendering the "twin engine" safety argument hollow and rather pointless.

 

Personally IMO there is a lot to like about the Gripen - its slightly faster, has the same service ceiling and its max combat range is comparable although is slightly less than the F-35 - but I don't think Canada has much choice other than to select the F-35 if for no other reason than the optics of us shoveling hundreds of millions of loonies toward its development only for Canada to reject the plane in the end, will be far too much for the Liberals to stomach.

 

While both the Gripen E and the F-35 are both single-engine fighters, their power plant is about the only similarity between the two. The Gripen airframe relies on a delta wing design and canard control surfaces, while the F-35 uses a more typical wing arrangement and stealthily canted V-tail.

 

In addition to the obvious stealth advantages, the F-35 is also a considerably younger airframe, first produced in the mid-2000s compared to the Gripen E’s late 1980s initial production date. Given these benefits and Canada’s close physical proximity and military relationship to the US of A, the F-35 is probably Ottawa’s best "safest" option. Not to mention that you_know Biden's people will lean very heavily on the Liberals pressuring them to buy their plane, and therefore you also know they will fold like a cheap tent, lol.

Edited by AllseeingEye, 16 December 2021 - 12:40 PM.

[Spy Black]

Agreed on all points.

 

A 6th generation fighter (the F-35) is a purchase for the next two or three decades to come.

It's debatable whether a 5th gen fighter (the Gripen) will have sufficient battlefield awareness in the decades to come ... and of course the Gripen simply doesn't have stealth, which would remove it from front line duties as it would suffer dramatically against an adversaries 6th gen fighter.

 

All that said, I wouldn't be too disappointed if Canada chose the Gripen, albeit that would be relegating the RCAF to more of a support role with NATO as opposed to being able to participate on the front lines of any future battlefield.

 

And as well, if one believes that manned aircraft are not the future, and that the future will be comprised largely of drones ... then the F-35's innate ability to control massive drone contingents from a single F-35 speaks volumes about what Canada's intentions might be.

 

It will be interesting to see which direction Canada chooses to go ... but if I was a betting man, I'd put all my money on the F-35 for all the reasons in our few posts above.

[phx]

Knowing the Liberals, I wouldn’t be surprised if we get the J-20.

[AllseeingEye]

Agreed on all points.

 

A 6th generation fighter (the F-35) is a purchase for the next two or three decades to come.

It's debatable whether a 5th gen fighter (the Gripen) will have sufficient battlefield awareness in the decades to come ... and of course the Gripen simply doesn't have stealth, which would remove it from front line duties as it would suffer dramatically against an adversaries 6th gen fighter.

 

All that said, I wouldn't be too disappointed if Canada chose the Gripen, albeit that would be relegating the RCAF to more of a support role with NATO as opposed to being able to participate on the front lines of any future battlefield.

 

And as well, if one believes that manned aircraft are not the future, and that the future will be comprised largely of drones ... then the F-35's innate ability to control massive drone contingents from a single F-35 speaks volumes about what Canada's intentions might be.

 

It will be interesting to see which direction Canada chooses to go ... but if I was a betting man, I'd put all my money on the F-35 for all the reasons in our few posts above.

 

 

Yeah....this: go look up Drone Swarms - a truly frightening battlefield technology which both the Chinese and Americans are busily working on, with the Russians most assuredly somewhere in the mix as well: future general wars on a large scale better not occur because they will be real bad news. For all of us.

 

As far as the RCAF being relegated to a support role, sadly our forces in all branches are too small, and the equipment mostly too old to make much of a material difference.

 

A now-retired fairly senior RCN officer from CFB Esquimalt used to live just around the corner from us. Over an on-the-street convo one day while walking the dog I asked about the navy and the constant delays in upgrading our ships and the military in general and inquired point-blank about what their role would be if the Chinese and Americans and whoever else came to the party had a real live naval clash in the Pacific or at least if tensions were high but not at a shooting point (yet).

 

Paraphrasing him the best thing for our 40 year old frigates would be to do an immediate about face and head for home "in order to save lives". Not very reassuring. But probably very accurate.

[Spy Black]

I got one generation of fighter jets ahead of myself in my earlier post ... the F-35 is a fifth generation fighter, the Gripen a fourth generation fighter.

 

Sixth gen fighters won't be around for another decade or so.

[Mike K.]

I suspect the 6th generation will be drone-based fighter aircraft.

[Spy Black]

As far as the RCAF being relegated to a support role, sadly our forces in all branches are too small, and the equipment mostly too old to make much of a material difference.

Agreed.

Although the days of Canada having armed forces that could go it alone are long past ... I think the concept of a role somewhere beyond just supporting NATO would be at least the ability to participate in a front line battlespace with the Americans, British, etc. 

That would be very much more possible with the F-35 than it would be with the Gripen ... not because of the Gripens inability to fight, rather more likely would be the potential that a Gripen could be forced up against an adversaries 5th gen fighter ... which isn't a situation one would ever voluntarily enter into.

 

I think too that our role at home will always be related to Arctic sovereignty flights, and the ability to quickly intercept Russian and Chinese aircraft (manned or drones), and then communicate the details of that interception back to NORAD quickly and securely in order to determine the threat level ... again a specialty of the F-35 and it's massive communications and control capabilities.

[Spy Black]

I suspect the 6th generation will be drone-based fighter aircraft.

I think you'll be proven correct Mike.

 

It's not beyond the pale to anticipate that 6th gen fighters will be massive swarms of stealth drones, all of which could potentially be controlled by 5th gen fighters such as the F-35.

That "control" could either be relaying information from a land based battlefield headquarters to the 6th gen drones via the F-35 (already programmed into the F-35's software suite), or could theoretically see a single F-35 controlling an entire fleet of a dozen or more 6th gen drone fighters, autonomously and with pinpoint accuracy.