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Housing People - What Works?


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#1 Icebergalley

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 10:39 AM

Will this work in Victoria?

I know it's a strategy that is used in Vancouver...

I've heard that it has not provided many units in Victoria...

What Works?

EDMONTON STRIKES AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEAL WITH DEVELOPER
Edmonton has struck a deal with a local developer that will see five
per cent of the units in a 750-unit condo development turned into
affordable housing. "I don't want to see a nurse coming to the
city of Edmonton, or a carpenter coming to the city of Edmonton [and
saying], 'I can't afford a house,'" said Mayor Stephen Mandel.
FULL STORY:
http://www.cbc.ca/ca... ... onton.html

#2 Mike K.

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 10:44 AM

That's being done in Langford already, with non-market housing being built (I think it's either 5 or 10%) in every subdivision with over a certain number of homes (I think that amount of homes necessary before the housing rule kicks in is quite low). In Victoria we have Dockside Green where 11% of housing is to be "affordable" although "affordable" in Victoria equates to a $250,000 condo.

I'm sketchy on the Langford details, though. Anyone know more?

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#3 valdez12

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 09:00 PM

One option is building for cheaper and a developer accepting lower profit. The first is possible and the second is very unlikely in a capitalist system.

Are we willing to accept cheaper construction (ie: think view towers and high density commie blocks) to enable people to live cheaply or should we all have a two bathroom condo with marble entry, heated floors, stainless appliances, and granite/quartz counter tops??

There's currently more money being made doing the later in Victoria than my former example and I dont see how it will change.

As a university teacher once told me (in a architecture course):
"The business of a developer is based on building at the lower possible cost and selling at the highest possible costs",
hence housing affordability is a bit of a contradiction, specially with the land scarcity around the lower island.

#4 D.L.

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 10:15 PM

But under capitalism, shouldn't any old Joe-shmo be able to start a business, and since there is a demand for more affordable housing, souldn't there be someone out there who wants to take advantage of this market?

Not all developers are capable of serving the luxury market.

What's preventing me from starting a business and building affordable housing? I would say the biggest obstacle to the little guy is bureaucracy.

#5 Icebergalley

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 11:05 PM

^^ you mean "commie" projects like this that just sold...$5.4 billion purchase of 80 acres of prime Manhattan land that included 110 buildings and 11,232 apartments.

http://www.nytimes.c... ... yt&emc=rss

http://www.tropolism... ... er_vil.php

Stuy Town and Peter Cooper Village: FOR SALE
Metropolitan Life dropped this bombshell right before the Labor Day news cycle (Curbed is on vacation this week, nuff said right there): Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village are up for sale. All 80 acres of prime Manhattan real estate, all 110 apartment buildings, all 11,000 apartments: yours for $5 billion. While we're sure the bulldozers won't be coming in anytime soon (the lawsuits alone are going to keep the neighborhood as is for years), we are counting on approximately 2 architectural competitions, 135 developer-requested housing schemes, 1 tasteful exhibition at the AIA Center For Architecture, several dozen symposia at New York University, one tasteful symposium at Columbia University, 580 posts on Curbed, and 23,820 comments on said posts.

And don't forget: there will be one large new shiny development, probably with no restored street grid (easier to keep in the 'luxury' ethos), definitely with some new buildings, and definitely priced as cutting edge-luxury. In short, New York will never be the same.

The housing complexes were the brainchild of Robert Moses, built in 1947 for returning WWII veterans, and served as a model of public housing throughout the city. The idea: get the insurance companies and banks involved in slum clearance! The project is also entered into architectural history books as an example of housing projects that "worked".

One question we pose to our readers: will the developper make a quick return on this? The New York luxe housing market has cooled in the last year, and with all the new luxury apartments still coming to market, I wonder if this is the kind of investment that looks good in 2006, but looks like a colossal mistake in 2007. We'll keep an eye on it.
30 August 06



#6 Holden West

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 11:43 PM

C-FAX
M-L-A EYES ESQUIMALT LIQUOR STORE LAND FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING

Jan 15, 2007

A LOCAL M-L-A SAYS THE PROVINCE NEEDS TO START IDENTIFYING LAND FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

THE NDP'S MAURINE KARAGIANIS TOLD CFAX 1070'S NEWSLINE PM, SHE KNOW'S OF PLACES IN HER OWN RIDING THAT WOULD BE PERFECT FITS.

SHE SAYS A GOVENMENT LIQUOR STORE IN ESQUIMALT, NEXT TO THE LEGION, IS SLATED TO CLOSE.

KARAGIANIS SAYS THE PROVINCE COULD TURN THAT OVER TO A DEVELOPER FOR THE PURPOSE OF BUILDING AFFORDABLE RENTAL HOUSING.

THE PRIVATE SECTOR, SHE BELEIVES, WOULD FLOCK TO THE OPPORTUNITY IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY THE INFLATED REAL ESTATE COST.

KARAGIANIS SAYS THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO HELP MAKE IT FINANCIALLY VIABLE FOR THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO PUT UP AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

- PRICE
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#7 D.L.

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 10:57 AM

perhaps one way "government" could make affordable housing more financially viable is by easing zoning regulations and allowing higher densities.

#8 Icebergalley

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 11:00 AM

^ let's be specific here..

What's happening with the policy to permit secondary suites?

#9 Mike K.

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 11:07 AM

All quiet on the western front as of several months. Been wondering that myself.

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#10 Caramia

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 06:39 PM

Yeah, I want to know that too. It is shameful to me that there are good homes out there for people that are illegal for them to live in. Why? Mostly because people with more money don't want people with less around imo, let alone as their neighbour's boarder.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#11 Ada

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 07:53 PM

I usually don't get a chance to read the paper until the evening and I was certain there would be a post about an article in the TC here. I'm surprised that I haven't found anything.

On the bottom front page of the C-section is an article about how regular families aren't able to afford to buy a condo any longer in the city (never mind a single unit dwelling with the white picket fence).

Affordable housing from the Dockside are only 1 bedroom units and Detlof Beck of VanCity says "the $3 million earmarked for affordable houses would be swallowed by just a few units. Instead Dockside will sell 26 one-bedroom at below market..."

Apparently, families can just rent – that’ll teach you for breeding.

I know that the Psychology department at the univeristy has been commissioned by the city to find out how to attract more families downtown. I added my two cents about affordability and was met with a "well, we hope there will be other answers besides that one".

Henry Kamphof, executive director of CRD Housing, tries to convince someone, anyone (himself?) that strategies of 30-40 years ago of buying small and renting out to friends while moving 2 or 3 times after fixing up can still make buying affordable to the average family income.

Then he adds something I find interesting:

"The litmus test of a community is whether any family on two incomes can enter into the rental or owned marketplace. If you can't, it's a dysfunctional community. I guess we have a dysfunctional community."

I don’t know where this “litmus test” comes from but it brings with it a hell of a lot of questions – such as why do we all expect to be able to be able to buy in the first place?

Reasons for the unaffordable status of Victoria? According to Demographia, it's our excessive land-use regulations including "extravagant" amenity requirements, urban growth boundaries and restrictive planning policies.

#12 Ada

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 08:00 PM

oops - found the discussion over in economy - nevermind.

#13 aastra

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 08:06 PM

"The litmus test of a community is whether any family on two incomes can enter into the rental or owned marketplace. "


What's the definition of a community? We all know that any family can't expect to enter the rental/owned marketplace in any part of town. You rent/buy where you can afford to rent/buy.

Question: If nobody can afford to rent or buy in Victoria then why is there a rental crisis and who are all these people buying all of the houses?

#14 Ada

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 08:31 PM

I've wondered that as well.

Albertans?
Retirees?
DINKs?
People who win the cosmic lottery of life? (inheritance)

#15 Holden West

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 10:31 PM

This is late notice but at tomorrow morning's Committee of the Whole meeting at City Hall at 9 am they're going to be talking about secondary suites.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#16 G-Man

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 06:22 PM

Is Vancouver really doing it? I wouldnt say so. Downtown Vancouver and the condo boom there is not marketed as a family neighbourhood. Sure, there are some families, but I am sure that the stats would point out that there are very few.

Been to Maple Ridge lately? Vancouver families are moving to the burbs, like everywhere else.


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#17 G-Man

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 06:29 PM

Apparently Vancouver is doing it. With two schools now in Downtown Vancouver and the need for a third one. Downtown Vancouver is bucking the trend of school closures.




Elsie Roy elementary, located at 150 Drake St., houses a student population of 335, but the shortage of space is so severe the school can't meet demand for next year. Photo-Dan Toulgoet


New downtown elementary already turning students away

By Naoibh O'Connor-Staff writer

Students refused admission to a downtown elementary school for lack of space are being directed to a school in Strathcona.

Elsie Roy elementary is turning away students only two years after it opened because the school is not large enough to accommodate soaring demand sparked by the development boom in downtown Vancouver.

The school, located at 150 Drake St., houses a student population of 335, but the shortage of space is so severe the school can't meet demand for September 2006.

Principal Isabel Grant predicts a waiting list of between 50 and 90 children for the next school year.

Planners didn't anticipate as many families would move into the condo-laden downtown area, which is driving up enrolment. Families are also making more permanent homes in the area than in past years. Grant noted there used to be a lot more turnover in the downtown community.

Elsie Roy filled up when registration started in the first couple weeks of January. Some spaces may open up, but many parents within the school's catchment area will be forced to transport their children to other elementaries, which aren't within walking distance.

Lord Strathcona, at 592 East Pender St., has been designated as the "home" school for students for whom space can't be found at Elsie Roy.

Parents can file a cross boundary application for another school if they're not satisfied with this option.

Elsie Roy, a 2,727-square-foot, two-storey school, is built over a city-owned parkade and attached to Dorothy Lam Children's Centre. One edge of the school, which is across from the Roundhouse Community Centre, faces the seawall, while the other borders on Drake.

Lord Strathcona is in a less desirable area of the city, but Grant maintains it has many advantages. "Strathcona certainly is in a neighbourhood that's more disadvantaged than Elsie Roy's but at the same time, it offers so many programs that we're not able to offer, just being a bigger school with a longer history," she said. "They have music and sports programs and additional staff that we just don't have. I'm really encouraging parents to get to know Strathcona. Their experience there will be a really positive one."

The Vancouver School Board is seeking approval from the provincial government to build other elementary schools in the downtown, including one near International Village, but that approval has yet to be granted. Even if a new school was given the green light, the earliest it could open is 2009 or 2010 and it would likely be full on the first day.

Getting approval for new schools is difficult as need for space must be demonstrated and the province doesn't base size on enrolment projections. There also can't be extra capacity at neighbouring schools.

Grant, meanwhile, said it's unfortunate Elsie Roy won't be able to accommodate all those interested in attending.

"We really don't want to disappoint anybody because we're proud of our school and the things we can offer the children and we'd like to be able to meet the needs of the entire community, but it's just an unfortunate outcome of the unanticipated popularity of this community," she said.

published on 04/12/2006

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#18 Holden West

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 06:49 PM

I wish downtown Victoria had that problem. Funny how not too long ago the problem here was overcrowding and every school had portables parked on the fields.




"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#19 Jada

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 07:45 PM

But a school with a population of only 335 students is a very small school in Vancouver. Honestly, whenever I walk around Yaletown I see few children, except those in strollers. Eventually the parents move to the burbs, Im sure.

#20 G-Man

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 07:59 PM

That is an average pop for an elementary school in the Vic School district...

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