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Victoria Pride Parades


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#81 Nparker

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 04:08 PM

...Point blank: The parade is not for straight people. You are not entitled to an opinion on our parade, regardless of whether or not you are supportive. You are welcome to attend but don't wear out that welcome...

I am not "straight" and after reading an outrageous, ignorant statement like that, the parade is not for me either. I can't say I will miss it.


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#82 bluefox

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 04:20 PM

I am not "straight" and after reading an outrageous, ignorant statement like that, the parade is not for me either. I can't say I will miss it.

 

That's too bad. But I doubt my comment was the final nail in the coffin; from reading your earlier comments, it seems you'd already made your mind up about the parade.


Edited by bluefox, 08 July 2018 - 04:24 PM.

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#83 Gary H

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 04:30 PM

Big turnout along the route...

 

43238094262_82a78cb71c_k.jpg


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#84 PraiseKek

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:00 PM

Hopefully the whole event collapses

#85 laconic

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:01 PM

"The oppressed become the oppressors"? Give your head a shake, laconic. Such a ridiculous comment. Not my business but if you are a member of the community I'd be embarrassed to share space with anyone that said that.

 

We literally aren't even close to being through with what is turning into one of the biggest failures of law enforcement in Canadian history to protect citizens – Bruce McArthur – and we have people out here making comments about poor oppressed police officers? Toronto Police continued a years-long tradition of neglect and disinterest in the LGBTQ community and banning them from the parade is exclusion? Get real, people.

 

 

I guess you didn't actually read my post since it was clear I've been a member of the community for a very long time. If you do want to play in-out, I note that your bio tag is "ex-Victorian" so perhaps you should let this community speak for itself.

 

Victoria is not Toronto. The citizens here are much more tolerant than almost any place in Canada. The gay community has had a very good relationship with the police forces for a very long time. I've said to my friends that a large majority of younger gay folk for the last 10 years don't bother going to the gay bars because they are comfortable with going to other bars and meeting people there.


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#86 spanky123

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:48 PM

I am not "straight" and after reading an outrageous, ignorant statement like that, the parade is not for me either. I can't say I will miss it.

 

I agree. If it is not my parade then I am happy to not have to pay for it each year.

 

Saanich and VicPD had nothing to do with Bruce MacArthur of course. Would be like blaming the Sidney RCMP detachment for Paul Bernardo.  


Edited by spanky123, 08 July 2018 - 05:49 PM.

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#87 Nparker

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 06:08 PM

...I doubt my comment was the final nail in the coffin...

That is true, and now I am certain I made the right decision.



#88 bluefox

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 06:18 PM

I guess you didn't actually read my post since it was clear I've been a member of the community for a very long time. If you do want to play in-out, I note that your bio tag is "ex-Victorian" so perhaps you should let this community speak for itself.

 

Victoria is not Toronto. The citizens here are much more tolerant than almost any place in Canada. The gay community has had a very good relationship with the police forces for a very long time. I've said to my friends that a large majority of younger gay folk for the last 10 years don't bother going to the gay bars because they are comfortable with going to other bars and meeting people there.

 

I did read your post, but didn't want to presume anything about you. And in all honesty, you made fair points for the most part but your comment about being the oppressor was way over the top.

 

The gay community in Victoria is a lot whiter than it is in those cities. That may explain why the relationship with law enforcement is more positive and people are less likely to take grievances from other parts of the community at face value.

 

 

I agree. If it is not my parade then I am happy to not have to pay for it each year.

 

Saanich and VicPD had nothing to do with Bruce MacArthur of course. Would be like blaming the Sidney RCMP detachment for Paul Bernardo.  

 

You actually don't pay for it, for the most part. The vast majority of funding for parades comes from corporate sponsorships. Financial participation from government usually comes in the form of grants that pride organizations have to work very hard to secure. Direct taxpayer subsidies (like in Vancouver where the parade has civic status) are not common, even in Canada.

 

As I pointed out, what's happening in Toronto is just the latest in a long line of issues between law enforcement and queer people. So no excuse just because we're on the other side of the country.

 

 

That is true, and now I am certain I made the right decision.

 

And I'm truly disappointed to hear you say that. Seriously. I saw a mention earlier about David Tillson being well past his best-before date. I don't disagree with that. But I might suggest it a better use of your time and energy to depose him and move Victoria Pride in a different direction as I get the sense you do care strongly about this.


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#89 laconic

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 06:38 PM

I did read your post, but didn't want to presume anything about you. And in all honesty, you made fair points for the most part but your comment about being the oppressor was way over the top.

 

And I'm truly disappointed to hear you say that. Seriously. I saw a mention earlier about David Tillson being well past his best-before date. I don't disagree with that. But I might suggest it a better use of your time and energy to depose him and move Victoria Pride in a different direction as I get the sense you do care strongly about this.

 

Again you're having problems with comprehension and simply making things up.

 

From my post there isn't much to presume about my involvement in the earlier years of the Pride parade. I was also the only one to mention David in this thread and I said nothing about his best before date.

 

The Victoria Pride activities were founded on inclusion. There was a decision to have week long events that included as many different folks as possible at different types of events throughout the week. The parade was designed to end in the park and have events for everyone. That's why there has always been a family section away from beer garden.

 

We invite anyone to participate in the parade when they show they embrace our values of tolerance and acceptance. We allow the participation of many groups and people who have previously been far from our allies. We are concerned about how they relate to us as people right now, and not by their previous beliefs or the clothes they wear.


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#90 Bingo

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 06:58 PM

Big turnout along the route...

 

Tourists walking back to the cruise ships?



#91 Gary H

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:12 PM

I shot this while the parade was in progress.  It was a combination of parade participants and on-lookers, some of whom were certainly cruise ship tourists.



#92 bluefox

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:36 PM

Again you're having problems with comprehension and simply making things up.

 

From my post there isn't much to presume about my involvement in the earlier years of the Pride parade. I was also the only one to mention David in this thread and I said nothing about his best before date.

 

The Victoria Pride activities were founded on inclusion. There was a decision to have week long events that included as many different folks as possible at different types of events throughout the week. The parade was designed to end in the park and have events for everyone. That's why there has always been a family section away from beer garden.

 

We invite anyone to participate in the parade when they show they embrace our values of tolerance and acceptance. We allow the participation of many groups and people who have previously been far from our allies. We are concerned about how they relate to us as people right now, and not by their previous beliefs or the clothes they wear.

 

Wasn't referring to your specific mention of David, otherwise I would have quoted you. And I am not disagreeing with you on what the parade is meant to do. I think we all agree ideally the parade would be a warm, fuzzy love-in.

 

But I think you're demonstrating a disappointing level of idealism around what the parade should stand for. That idealism is on a collision course with the realities faced by some parts of the community, who clearly don't see things the way you do. At its core Pride remains a protest and a giant middle-finger to people who wish we would just go away. The conversation is simply morphing to give space to people who haven't had a voice in that conversation before.

 

For the record, I was originally not supportive of banning them for the same reasons you and others have cited – "inclusion", "acceptance", "let's not be hypocritical", etc. – until I talked to the people who were actually advancing the argument around police participation in the parade, and understood that I was not seeing things through their lens.


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#93 Nparker

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:40 PM

...I'm truly disappointed to hear you say that. Seriously. I saw a mention earlier about David Tillson being well past his best-before date. I don't disagree with that. But I might suggest it a better use of your time and energy to depose him and move Victoria Pride in a different direction as I get the sense you do care strongly about this.

I have, at best, had a mostly tenuous relationship with the local queer community for quite some time. I am nearly David's age and I have neither the time nor the inclination to tackle what I am almost certain would be a fruitless battle (no pun intended). If the current political direction of Pride is the way of the future who am I to say it must switch gears? I am satisfied to leave it to the next generation to find their own path and make their own mistakes along the way.



#94 rjag

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:53 PM

 

 

For the record, I was originally not supportive of banning them for the same reasons you and others have cited – "inclusion", "acceptance", "let's not be hypocritical", etc. – until I talked to the people who were actually advancing the argument around police participation in the parade, and understood that I was not seeing things through their lens.

 

Personally I think the whole thing has been hijacked by virtue signalling politicians and corporate sponsors that were bullied into making public displays of support.

 

Boil it back down to what its essence and original purpose is....too much politics and too many agendas at play here....ban corporate support, ban politicians and their faux displays



#95 sdwright.vic

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:12 PM

My response to police not being allowed at Pride.

So, with the ongoing debate about police officers at Pride throughout North America, I have decided it’s time for me to come out of the closet. The closet of being a victim of trauma. Which traumas doesn't matter, this is not a competition.

Yes, I said traumas. So yes, there is more than one, and some were even self inflicted traumas to attempt to “recover” from previous traumas.

Now, I am sure you are going to say “gee, white boy with privilege trauma, someone must be devastated about not getting into Harvard”. I am going to tell you, no I know what “real" trauma is and leave it at that.

A note about the white privilege that I may be accused of having before we go on. While I do not deny advantages may exist, I will never agree that my trauma is lesser than anyone else. Nor, does that mean that I am saying it was more.

Why? I am a 47 year old man that grew up in the mid-western bible belt of the US. I gave been called a faggot, a queer and every other homophobic word in the book. I used to sit and listen to family and friends talk about those faggot-queers “deserving what they got" when bashing stories were on the news or whatever talk show. I had to face all the torment a young child may face today for being gay. But, without the chance of a sympathetic teacher or ally. Back then, we had to hide, even from each other. Especially if you were a child with other trauma.

So I had to live in fear of making some movement or gesture that might give me away. I had to spend hours in the bathroom practicing my voice in the mirror so their was no indication of my sexuality. Basically, I had to spend my life pretending I was something I wasn't.

And these are not even my traumas.

So, when I listen and read about individuals that are upset by the trauma they suffered at the hands of the police, and they should not be allowed to march in a Pride Parade because they are/ could be a trigger, I say take some responsibility for yourself. Have some understanding that you are the one responsible for interacting with the world. It is not everyone else’s responsibility to make the world safe for you. There are too many different traumas, and you or your group are not unique. However, if you are the victim of a trauma that can be “categorized” into a a common group trauma (i.e. a perceived or actual injustice by the police), feel some solace in that fact that you can share recovery from that trauma with others today. There was a time, no matter what you were you couldn't. In the past, some of us had no chance to share our trauma even if we were white males. Thus we suffered till late in life.

I suffer from PTSD, clinical depression and high functioning anxiety because of the traumas I have been through. Many, many things are triggers, life is a process that is controlled by highly structured regulatory. One that requires me to regulate myself, so that I can go out, and take part in life. So, it’s not easy. Many thing are a trigger, and I use tools and techniques to function on a day to day basis.

The thing I don't do is ask the world to stop because of my triggers. I don't think, expect or mandate that safe spaces be made for me so I can go out in the world. I make my safe spaces for myself, so that I can exist. I don't ask or expect other to change to fit my issues. That would not be fair.

Surviving trauma means you are a survivor. Easier said then done. But it is possible, and it can stop being everyone else’s fault.
There are many things that I could try to demand not be a part of my Pride because of the fact they could be a trigger. I would never do that. That is not my place, or my right. My right is to heal myself.

So my point. Stop asking for everything from everyone else. Take some responsibility for yourself. Yes what has happened to you, and me is horrible. But it is unique to you, and everyone’s experience is the same. So stop trying to force your experience on everyone else. Make yourself whole. In doing so, don’t make someone else incomplete.
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#96 sdwright.vic

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:20 PM

If this "drama" would not of happened, I simply would of stopped going because if the continued repetitive nature of David Tison's and the MC's for each event. Time for something new.
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#97 sdwright.vic

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:21 PM

I agree. If it is not my parade then I am happy to not have to pay for it each year.

Saanich and VicPD had nothing to do with Bruce MacArthur of course. Would be like blaming the Sidney RCMP detachment for Paul Bernardo.

BC Day is not "my" parade either... so cancel it also please?

Edited by sdwright.vic, 08 July 2018 - 09:26 PM.

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#98 sdwright.vic

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:31 PM

NParker.. please don't use the "queer" word because it should be as offensive to you as it is to me
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#99 Nparker

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 10:36 PM

Sometimes it's just simpler to use the common vernacular, even if it isn't my first choice. I made peace with this particular word long ago, but I understand that it still has negative connotations for some people. I certainly meant no offense. I also cannot possibly remember the increasingly complicated acronym currently in use.
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#100 tjv

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 08:58 AM

Point blank: The parade is not for straight people. You are not entitled to an opinion on our parade, regardless of whether or not you are supportive. You are welcome to attend but don't wear out that welcome. 

What an absolutely insensitive, ignorant and intolerant statement.  I guess you tolerate comments like that against the gay community too!

 

Now what if a business owner was to make a comment like that, that homosexuals were basically banned from his store?  Holy smokes

 

Makes me think twice about being sensitive to the homosexual community



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