2164 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

When CRD taxpayers nearly got ripped off with another Commonwealth Games by Ms. Helps and Mr. Black in 2016, I pulled the TC articles from 1990-1996 to see what happened last time. (ask me anything, I could write a book, lol.)

 

I bet almost no-one knows we're paying a gas tax today only locally that was put in place to help pay for those games and, like so many others, was just kept in place.

 

Would that be the BC Transit tax? It's currently at 5.5 cents per litre.

[Mike K.]

Parliamentary Budget Officer Yves Giroux released a report late last week that found the cost of the Liberals’ carbon tax would not be revenue neutral for most families. While he found most Canadians would receive more in rebates than they pay in carbon taxes, the economic impact of the tax would drive down wages and raise costs.

“We estimate that most households will see a net loss, paying more in the federal fuel charge and GST, as well as receiving lower incomes, compared to the Climate Action Incentive payments they receive,” Giroux wrote.

…

“In light of the overwhelming body of evidence, including your own analysis, that climate change is bringing huge costs to bear on Canadians, I would ask that you launch a new study that integrates both sides of the climate ledger into your assessment,” Longfield wrote.

Longfield pointed out that the PBO submitted a report last fall that found climate change was already costing the Canadian economy considerably. That report found rising temperatures had already cost the economy $20 billion as of 2021.

…

He argued the carbon tax can reduce a family’s expenses if it encourages them to install a heat pump for their home instead of an oil furnace, or buy a zero emission vehicle, which comes with fewer maintenance costs.

- https://nationalpost...rbon-tax-report

The ol’ save money by spending money trick.

From BC Hydro:

“For the average household in B.C., it is less expensive to heat with an electric heat pump than a natural gas furnace. A natural gas furnace costs around $731/year to operate, compared to $642/year to an electric heat pump.“ - https://www.bchydro....tric heat pump.

But what they don’t tell you, of course, is the technology cost difference between the two is not insignificant, and at a $90 cost savings per year on average, the payback period on the pump will never be reached, before you have to replace the pump. Hydro rates are also rising, and to lessen the competitiveness of natural gas, government has to keep raising its taxation for use.

And what they also won’t tell you, is how much higher your annual electricity bill becomes as you use energy with the pump -all year.- Since you already spent thousands on the pump and its installation, you’re also going to use it for maintaining stable ambient temperatures in summer, because heat pumps also cool. I don’t know anyone with a pump who doesn’t use it for air conditioning in the summer, even if it’s not hot enough to warrant it, but they still do, because it’s a set it and forget it system.

[Victoria Watcher]

Yes. They sure seem expensive for what they do.

[Ismo07]

Yes. They sure seem expensive for what they do.

 

Does a heat pump also cool in the summers?  So no air conditioner needed?

[Mike K.]

It is an air conditioner, and if a home has proper AC, not the mobile or window units, it uses a heat pump to cool.

So most homes will end up using more hydro year-round, because you’re spending $10k on the pump, so you might as well turn on the AC when you feel the slightest bit of heat. It’s human nature. And you don’t want the pump sitting idle for six months, either. Use it or lose it, etc…

[Victoria Watcher]

Does a heat pump also cool in the summers? So no air conditioner needed?

Yes most can.

It can’t cool as good as a dedicated AC unit you’ll find in other climates. But it does good around here.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 06 April 2023 - 08:44 AM.

[Mike K.]

Yes, it’s very fitting for our mild climate. It wouldn’t work well in Chicago at 40C everyday with the humidex.

[Ismo07]

Yes, it’s very fitting for our mild climate. It wouldn’t work well in Chicago at 40C everyday with the humidex.

 

The ex installed one a couple years ago and says hydro bills were noticeably reduced and the cooling is very helpful.  I would have to think installation of a gas furnace and air conditioner will be at par with the heat pump, so that's likely a wash.  That house only had baseboards so....  Gas furnace might have been more right to add the ducting etc. 

 

She seems happy with the purchase.

Edited by Ismo07, 06 April 2023 - 09:29 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Baseboard heaters are cheap. And relatively efficient use of resistive heating. But 3X worse than heat pumps, when heat pumps are working at an optimal outdoor temperature.

[Matt R.]

We put one in the store after the heat dome, it works fabulously in the 2000 sq ft space. If we didn’t have such an awesome wood stove at home I bet we’d put one in there, too.

[Barrrister]

Has any one done the math as to available electrical generation if we convert all cars to electric and mandate all new construction to use electric heat and appliances? 

 

As the government loses tax revenue on gasoline sales are they likely to substitue it to electrical sales?

[Victoria Watcher]

At some point they will need to “gas or road tax” electrics.

Electricity production is fine for a long time. Around here. It takes 20 years to turn the car fleet.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 06 April 2023 - 09:57 AM.

[Ismo07]

Has any one done the math as to available electrical generation if we convert all cars to electric and mandate all new construction to use electric heat and appliances? 

 

As the government loses tax revenue on gasoline sales are they likely to substitue it to electrical sales?

 

Fear people do that math to find reasons to not have an electric vehicle.... 

[Matt R.]

Regular gas is about $3.25/l in Iceland btw. Despite their apparently inexpensive and abundant electricity, thanks to geothermal generation, there are very few electric cars here that I have seen.

[Barrrister]

Ismo, leaving aside how you characterize the people doing the math, is there any actual studies on the math? My concern is since we seem to have policies for both all new builds and eventual all cars do we have a good handle on the availability and sourcing of electricity for BC? 

 

Do we need to be looking at more hydro damns and when do they need to get started and what about power transmission. Do we need to be looking at nuclear.

 

I am wondering is there is actually an overall and interconnected plan and exactly in what documents is it set out in?

[Ismo07]

Ismo, leaving aside how you characterize the people doing the math, is there any actual studies on the math? My concern is since we seem to have policies for both all new builds and eventual all cars do we have a good handle on the availability and sourcing of electricity for BC? 

 

Do we need to be looking at more hydro damns and when do they need to get started and what about power transmission. Do we need to be looking at nuclear.

 

I am wondering is there is actually an overall and interconnected plan and exactly in what documents is it set out in?

 

Yes these questions have been raised.  It might mean that some charging will only happen in the middle of the night.  EV charges will have set times.  Also once an EV is charged it won't draw anymore.  Most cars sit for so long there won't be much of an impact.  The growth won't be sudden so changes can be made as needed.  

[lanforod]

I think people blow it a lot out of proportion too. They do the math as if you’re draining the whole battery every day.
WFH shift has probably bought a lot of time as well.

[Victoria Watcher]

Ismo, leaving aside how you characterize the people doing the math, is there any actual studies on the math? My concern is since we seem to have policies for both all new builds and eventual all cars do we have a good handle on the availability and sourcing of electricity for BC? 

 

Do we need to be looking at more hydro damns and when do they need to get started and what about power transmission. Do we need to be looking at nuclear.

 

I am wondering is there is actually an overall and interconnected plan and exactly in what documents is it set out in?

 

 

 

The biggest mistake the social media keyboard warriors make is the very strange assumption that all cars could be charging at once. In the UK, there are currently 32,697,408 cars according to the UK Department of Transport. The UK national grid had a capacity of 75.8GW in 2020. If all the cars in the UK were EVs and charging at the same time at 7kW (the typical home charger rate), they would need 229GW – three times the UK grid capacity. If they were all charging at 50kW (a common public DC charger rate), they would need 1.6TW – 21.5 times the UK grid capacity. That sounds unworkable, and this is usually the kind of thinking behind those who claim the grid won’t handle EVs.

 

What they don’t seem to realize is that the chances of every single car charging all at once are infinitesimally low. Their arguments seem to assume that nobody ever drives their car, and just charges it all the time. If you look at averages, the absurdity of this position becomes particularly clear. The distance each UK car travels per year has been slowly dropping, and was 7,400 miles on average in 2019, again according to the UK Department of Transport. An EV will do somewhere between 2.5 and 4.5 miles per kWh on average, so let’s go in the middle and say 3.5 miles. In other words, each car will consume an average of 2,114kWh per year. Multiply that by the number of cars, and you get 69.1TWh. But the UK national grid produced 323TWh of power in 2019, so that is only 21.4% of the energy it produced for the year. Before you argue that’s still a problem, the UK grid produced 402TWh in 2005, which is more than the 2019 figure plus charging all the EVs in the UK put together. The capacity is there.

 

https://www.forbes.c...sh=3db8775c7862

 

However, in 2020, the US grid generated 4,007TWh of electricity. Americans drive further on average than Brits – 13,500 miles per year, according to the US Department of Transport’s Federal Highway Administration. That means an American car, if it were an EV, would need 3,857kWh per year, assuming the average efficiency figures above. If all US cars were EVs, they would need a total of 1,106.6TWh, which is 27.6% of what the American grid produced in 2020. US electricity consumption hasn’t shrunk in the same way since 2005 as it has in the UK, but it is clearly not unfeasible for all American cars to be EVs. The US grid could cope too.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 06 April 2023 - 07:38 PM.

[LJ]

 

 

Do we need to be looking at more hydro damns and when do they need to get started and what about power transmission. Do we need to be looking at nuclear.

 

 

They won't be building any more dams, they will go to small modular nuclear reactors.

[Victoria Watcher]

• B.C.’s largest consuming sector for electricity in 2019 was industrial, at 25.7 terawatt-hours (TWh). The residential and commercial sectors consumed 19 TWh and 15.1 TWh, respectively.

 

 

^ So that's about 60TWh.

 

https://www.cer-rec....h-columbia.html

 

 

 

In 2019, B.C. generated 64.3 terawatt-hours (TWh) of electricity 

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder who those big industrial users are.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 06 April 2023 - 08:28 PM.