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PROPOSED
Crystal Pool and Wellness Centre
Use: commercial
Address: 2275 Quadra Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Urban core
Storeys: 2
The City of Victoria is exploring the option of replacing the aging Crystal Pool Fitness Centre with a modern ... (view full profile)
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Crystal Pool and Wellness Centre project


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#641 Mike K.

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 08:11 AM

We can no longer, as taxpayers, put trust in the City’s project budgets with the mayor’s recent statement that despite providing taxpayers with a budget for the bike lane, there was no budget.

How do you tell your taxpayers that?
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#642 Nparker

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 09:10 AM

...How do you tell your taxpayers that?

I think it gets easier for her each time she has to offer an explanation for why outcomes are not what was promised. She's becoming a master politician and has learned a vital lesson: the majority of the electorate have short memories and are easily distracted by shiny things.



#643 Cassidy

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 09:12 AM

The COV has so much incurred debt, anticipated debt, and unanticipated increases in debt associated with these projects, one has to start to question the wherewithal of the COV to absorb and make good on all of that current and pending debt.

 

As well, with the exception of the sewage treatment project, the bridge, pool, and bike lanes are all ultimately discretionary spending, all of which could have been (or can be) accomplished by refurbishment or building to less than the most expensive "world class" standards ... but still providing excellent service for the next 100 years. Young's comment on council about bike lanes with plastic barriers comes to mind as being cost effective, and perhaps more important, quick to deploy and remove ... this as the needs of drivers and cyclists in the COV change over time (which they definitely will).

 

Council is essentially out of control (calmly out of control ... but out of control nonetheless), and seems blinded by their desire to spend massive amounts of money either where it doesn't need to be spent, or spent to benefit a tiny number of taxpayers in the COV.

I initially agreed with the thinking that these vanity projects were sought for a political legacy to benefit the memory of the current council, but I'm now forced to wonder if it's not legacy based at all, but rather blind mismanagement of public funds undertaken by a city council entirely lacking in cohesive planning, and either uninterested in, or lacking the skills to implement effective financial management of the COV's financial coffers.

 

It's actually getting (or already is) serious, I'd call it mismanagement of public funds.

 


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#644 aastra

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 12:13 PM

Have I made this point already? These sorts of projects (new bridge, new bike lanes, new pool) are what you'd expect after a boom, when the city is flush with cash and looking for things to spend it on. You don't improvise or do maintenance when you're flush with cash. When you're flush with cash you buy new stuff. You make changes.

 

But Victoria's political milieu since the 1930s or thereabouts has been all about crisis and scarcity. Vancouver took the prosperity ball and ran off with it for keeps. There will never be prosperity again.

 

Here's the thing: ask any Victorian if the city has been booming for the past ~14 years and they'll surely agree, IF you frame the question in negative terms. Nobody would argue that there have been countless ugly new buildings and countless dirty/noisy construction sites and countless moneyed new arrivals, etc. An overwhelming wave of intense & transformative development and redevelopment. The city is expensive now. Ordinary people are being priced out.

 

Okay, so then the city should be flush with cash, right?

 

(crickets chirping)

 

Victoria might just be the only city anywhere that can enjoy an extended boom and still be desperate. Heck, the way things are framed, you'd think the supposed crisis was worse now than it was in the late 1990s and very early 2000s, when the city really was sucking wind and nothing much was happening.

 

Has a bonanza been reaped or not? I know the official/political response would be negative (we've all seen those silly claims that the city suffers when development is happening, because of administrative costs and infrastructure pressures blah blah blah). I'm not interested in the political framing of it. I'm asking whether a bonanza has been reaped or not.

 

Because a bonanza should have been reaped by now. In any other place a bonanza would have been reaped by now. Victorians will go to any other place and immediately understand that all of the fancy new stuff in the other place is there because a bonanza was reaped. Even if the boom in the other place was much smaller and/or shorter than Victoria's boom. And even if the political structure in that other place obligates the bonanza to be spread across a physically large municipality as versus just 19 square kilometers of Victoria's city proper. Victoria city is a densely populated & physically small jurisdiction, lest we forget. We always seem to forget that when we're painting things with our big crisis brush.

 

Suffice it to say, I'm wondering how long a boom period can last before we start to question the plausibility of the crisis narratives.


Edited by aastra, 08 December 2017 - 12:15 PM.

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#645 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:50 AM

Victoria will look to include employment opportunities for marginalized individuals if and when it replaces the Crystal Pool.

 

 

http://www.timescolo...nces-1.23117802

 

The politicians pushing the project already have marginal skill sets, does that not already qualify?


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 09 December 2017 - 08:15 AM.

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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#646 spanky123

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 08:13 AM

So we have now committed $5M to the pool project and the latest attempt to try and get another level of Government to pay for this boondoggle is to try an appease them with a hiring plan. Personally I would prefer that a health and recreation facility be staffed with people who are actually qualified to care for those under their supervision. 


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#647 Bingo

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:57 AM

So we have now committed $5M to the pool project and the latest attempt to try and get another level of Government to pay for this boondoggle is to try an appease them with a hiring plan.

Personally I would prefer that a health and recreation facility be staffed with people who are actually qualified to care for those under their supervision. 

 

I haven't tried it in a while...but I know how to do the backstroke.



#648 Nparker

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 11:11 AM

...I know how to do the backstroke.

But how is your 900 block Pandora Avenue, mid-street shuffle?


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#649 Bingo

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 12:18 PM

How will the referendum be worded?

 

Example:

Are you in favour of building a new Number 1 Fire Hall in the new wing of the Crystal Pool?

And are you in favour of upgrading certain areas of the existing building to satisfy future needs?

And are you in favour of enclosing the on site Steve Nash basketball practice court as part of the upgrades?

 

Mark ballot either YES...or YES.



#650 spanky123

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 01:45 PM

How will the referendum be worded?

 

Example:

Are you in favour of building a new Number 1 Fire Hall in the new wing of the Crystal Pool?

And are you in favour of upgrading certain areas of the existing building to satisfy future needs?

And are you in favour of enclosing the on site Steve Nash basketball practice court as part of the upgrades?

 

Mark ballot either YES...or YES.

 

Do you like water?


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#651 Mike K.

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 11:03 AM

Do you support building a new pool, or not? Vote on our Facebook page: https://Facebook.com/VibrantVictoria

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#652 shoeflack

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:20 PM

Right on the fence at 51% yes, 49% no after 900 votes with 90 minutes left.

 

Can't say I'm surprised; this is a project that the City desperately needs. Would be interesting to see the demo's of this to get a sense of what CoV taxpayers think.



#653 Mike K.

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:22 PM

I wish we could identify parameters for the poll, but that would be too good of a tool to be made freely available by the likes of Facebook.

So just over an hour left and 51% are in favour.
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#654 Nparker

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:24 PM

Do you support building a new pool, or not? Vote on our Facebook page: https://Facebook.com/VibrantVictoria

Keep in mind that if you don't like the results discount the process like the mayor does.


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#655 Midnightly

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:46 PM

see i'm on the fence due to the variables of the project.. i'm all for a new pool (we swim regularly and we rarely go to crystal because it's old, run down, there's no perk to going there like a lazy river or wave pool or fun water slide.. and parking is horrible,also their showers lack water pressure) but between the planned budget (borrowing 60 along with the current 10million) the lackluster plans they currently have, and the fact that i simply do not trust this council to do it on time and on budget i'm not sure i want see a new pool being built at the moment



#656 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:50 PM

Do we all agree this is a fair way to proceed... a call for proposals.

 

We tell the private sector what the pool and facility is we want, and they deliver it to us for free attached to some type of housing they get to own, or sell?

 

We just select the best bid.


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 03 January 2018 - 03:50 PM.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#657 shoeflack

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:58 PM

That's gotta be one heck of a tall tower or major project to get back their $60 million public amenity investment. How do you even make money on a project that is costing you $60 million before you even break ground? In a 120-unit condo tower, that'd be half a million per unit just on the amenity cost alone.



#658 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:05 PM

That's gotta be one heck of a tall tower or major project to get back their $60 million public amenity investment. How do you even make money on a project that is costing you $60 million before you even break ground? In a 120-unit condo tower, that'd be half a million per unit just on the amenity cost alone.

 

The developer's proposal does not have to include just this site.  It can include part or all of the park, plus the arena parking lot and curling club across the street.   As well as a portion of RAP, and any private property he might assemble on Pembroke and Green.  And also the city's Green St. parking lot.

 

Think big here, folks.  World class. 


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 03 January 2018 - 04:17 PM.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#659 shoeflack

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:21 PM

The developer's proposal does not have to include just this site.  It can include part or all of the park, plus the arena parking lot and curling club across the street.   As well as a portion of RAP, and any private property he might assemble on Pembroke and Green.

 

Think big here, folks.  World class. 

 

I can get on board with that. I've always dreamed that the two block area bordered by Yates/Fort/Quadra/Vancouver would undergo a massive re-development. Demolish the whole two blocks including View Towers and Harris Green Village, completely rebuild a massive recreation complex (pool/gym/rooftop soccer pitch) on the south block with some residential towers mixed in. Rebuild Harris Green Village with some more towers and a hotel. Have townhouse style units along View Street. Would be sweeeeeet.

 

That'd be about a $500 million+ project. Makes a rec centre amenity seem much more achievable. But that's just a dream.



#660 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:22 PM

Same scale:

 

screenshot-www.google.ca-2018-01-03-16-18-32-212.png

 

screenshot-www.google.ca-2018-01-03-16-20-37-035.png

 

The developer is required to build the pool part first.

 

 

 

 


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

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