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Mayor Lisa Helps: criminals are "desperate," not that "they're bad"


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#41 pherthyl

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 06:26 PM

Last year we had too many cops, now we are to believe its a post apocalyptic wasteland downtown.   Too funny

 

Greater Victoria crime rate declining, police overstaffed

http://www.timescolo...port-1.1385203 



#42 Mike K.

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 09:37 PM

^Look at Stephen Reid, the stopwatch bandit--never harmed a fly during his robberies until his last heist, shooting at cops to feed his newly reacquired heroin habit. Incredibly stupid decision.


A newly released video shows a robber of a convenience store in Cape Town accidentally (allegedly) shooting the store keeper in the face. Any time someone brings a gun into a situation like that they've made the decision to kill or seriously injure if necessary, even if pulling the trigger is an accident.

We've got a group of people out there somewhere who had no qualms over using guns to rob a place. Amd this is the third armed robbery in three months. Meanwhile the chief says the public shouldn't be alarmed. Excuse me?

This year there have been more murders than any other year in recent memory. The Hells Angels are now in town. The chief is concerned about a spike in crime between the street community. We're seeing an increase in visible homelessness and street issues. Things are changing, and when you live and work in downtown Victoria you can't help but see and feel those changes.

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#43 Wayne

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 08:10 AM

No such thing as a bad criminal, just bad parenting. No such thing as a bad criminal just bad teachers. No such thing as a bad criminal just a bad correctional/law system.

Unreal BS!

#44 http

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 11:05 AM

Some serious planning, resources and wherewithal went into the last armed robbery of the marijuana dispensary. I reject the notion that the individuals who perpetrated this were desperate.

 

You may need a broader definition of "desperate."  You're treating it as if it can only be transitory, momentary while discounting the possibliity that desperation can be ongoing and continuous.


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#45 Mike K.

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 11:15 AM

Which I guess makes it chronic criminality if lesser crimes out of desperation lead up to something as serious as pointing guns in people's faces.

And we're talking about a group of people, not just one person being pushed over the edge.

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#46 pherthyl

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 12:41 PM

Fact is if we didn't have the homeless population downtown (aka the desperate) tomorrow, 90% of crime would disappear overnight.     And most of the crimes are theft, robbery, B&E.   

 

So while we don't know the motivation of these particular robbers (and no one ever said those particular robbers were desperate), the statement that in general desperate people are the ones robbing downtown is totally correct. 



#47 insanelydeadlydisease

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 01:17 PM

Fact is if we didn't have the homeless population downtown (aka the desperate) tomorrow, 90% of crime would disappear overnight.     And most of the crimes are theft, robbery, B&E.   

 

So while we don't know the motivation of these particular robbers (and no one ever said those particular robbers were desperate), the statement that in general desperate people are the ones robbing downtown is totally correct. 

Maybe so but they are indeed "bad" people. Degenerates. The trash of our society. Etc. Saying otherwise is lying.



#48 aastra

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 02:06 PM

 

One of the lesser known benefits of lower urban speed & improved walkability is reduced crime.

 

Crime numbers will surely improve if we stop classifying desperate armed robberies as crime. If that's not good enough we can stop classifying desperate sexual assaults and desperate murders and attempted murders as crime, too. You'd have the safest community anywhere.

 

The rationalizations become quite distasteful when we extend them in this manner.



#49 Mike K.

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 02:36 PM

Homelessness and poverty do not give an individual the sudden desire to become a criminal and prey on his fellow man, despite officialdom's apparent license for those individuals to do so. In fact you'll find that the majority of homeless individuals who are trying to better their lives, and not members of the "chronic street community," have little to do with criminal activity. They may break bylaws, however.

Drug addicts will steal from those closest to them and hurt whomever they need to hurt to score a fix, including members of the homeless community trying to get a leg up and members of the chronic street community. Lumpimg that activity with desperation absolves the actions of indoviduals consciously putting their needs and their desires well ahead of those of their fellow man, and officialdom is stating that this makes sense and society ought to be understanding of their plight.

We'll soon find out the details behind today's attempted murder on Douglas. We'll see whether or not desperation played a role, whether or not homelessness played a role, and who the perpetrator(s) was/were.

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#50 aastra

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 03:08 PM

 

Maybe so but they are indeed "bad" people. Degenerates. The trash of our society. Etc. Saying otherwise is lying.

 

Call me a liar. The reason they divert you away from the criminal act itself and focus instead on juvenile categorizations of "good" versus "bad" versus "desperate" or whatever else is because they're trying to infantilize both you and the perpetrator.

 

Don't judge a person by his criminal actions. Judge him instead by some imaginary construct re: his innate goodness or badness. Is it any wonder that we have good terrorism, good genocides, good wars, and good invasions in this world, even as we harshly criticize all of the bad terrorism, bad genocides, bad wars, and bad invasions? Good people order good mass murder and bad people order bad mass murder. It's as simple as that.

 

If a charming white-collar embezzler's motivation is to buy a lot of expensive stuff for his family, should we really not hold the embezzler accountable for the impact of his crimes on his victims? That embezzler's a good guy, a community leader, a gentleman. He just really wanted a designer kitchen and a backyard swimming pool and a helicopter. He was desperate. He didn't want to bankrupt innocent people and destroy their lives. Not one bit. Don't try to twist his exceptional concern for his family's welfare into something nefarious. He's good. Look at the man, look at his motivations. Don't look at his deeds.

 

Let's be serious. The preparation for the criminal act, the execution of the criminal act, the consequences of the criminal act, the broader impacts of the criminal act... these things are of the utmost relevance.

Folks, I don't care one iota about anybody else's childish assessments of goodness or badness. I care that an armed robbery was committed. If armed people are in my neighbourhood committing crimes and making high-speed getaways then it doesn't matter to me if they're the sweetest people in the world. They're committing armed robbery. Armed robbery is a crime and it's dangerous.*

 

*Yet again we encounter this inscrutably inconsistent Victorian attitude re: peril and public safety.

 

Aggressive deer and lurking cougars? Meh.

Open drug dealing/drug addiction on downtown streets? Yawn.

Armed robberies at neighbourhood pot shops? No concern to me.

Traffic is moving at 48km/h instead of 40km/h? That's very serious.

A developer wants to build a small condo project? LOOMING CATASTROPHE. WE NEED ACTION BEFORE THE COMMUNITY IS DESTROYED. STOP THE EVIL BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.*

 

*Just in case anyone is new here, the claim that innocuous condo developments could/will destroy the community is a common one. I'm not exaggerating, I'm not making that up. We see it all the time. We've seen it year after year. Law-abiding Victorians living in apartments or working in small storefront businesses will destroy a neighbourhood, but armed robberies and open drug dealing aren't even a black mark. Armed robberies and high-speed getaways are an integral part of the charm and character of Oaklands, don't you know? Again, I make fun of this but it's really not funny. Priorities are severely misplaced and because they're so misplaced Victorians are reaping many unfortunate (but very predictable) consequences.


Edited by aastra, 31 October 2015 - 03:10 PM.

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#51 Mike K.

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 03:42 PM

If Holden were still here I'm sure he'd award you with a Gord's Post of the Week.

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#52 Mike K.

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 04:16 PM

Did we know this about the dispensary robbery? From VicPD's website:

"During the robbery, the victims had their hands bound in the store by the suspects."

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#53 aastra

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 04:26 PM

For their own safety.


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#54 Bingo

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 06:51 PM

If Holden were still here I'm sure he'd award you with a Gord's Post of the Week.

 

Where is Holden, I hope he hasn't been banned.



#55 Bingo

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 10:20 PM

Homelessness and poverty do not give an individual the sudden desire to become a criminal and prey on his fellow man, despite officialdom's apparent license for those individuals to do so. In fact you'll find that the majority of homeless individuals who are trying to better their lives, and not members of the "chronic street community," have little to do with criminal activity. They may break bylaws, however.

Drug addicts will steal from those closest to them and hurt whomever they need to hurt to score a fix, including members of the homeless community trying to get a leg up and members of the chronic street community. Lumpimg that activity with desperation absolves the actions of indoviduals consciously putting their needs and their desires well ahead of those of their fellow man, and officialdom is stating that this makes sense and society ought to be understanding of their plight.

We'll soon find out the details behind today's attempted murder on Douglas. We'll see whether or not desperation played a role, whether or not homelessness played a role, and who the perpetrator(s) was/were.

 

I think it all boils down to entitlement.

Like a child crying until they get their way, the adult remains a victim not caring about others.

When they are not self reliant they become dependent on drugs and alcohol and resort to crime to feed those needs.

There will be no conclusions drawn on todays incident, no changes will be made by the perps or the enforcers.

And still we try to make sense of it all.

But should we ever be confronted in our own home by one of these entitled people, we might be surprised at the steps we would take to defend our family.



#56 pherthyl

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 10:40 PM

I think it all boils down to entitlement.
Like a child crying until they get their way, the adult remains a victim not caring about others.
When they are not self reliant they become dependent on drugs and alcohol and resort to crime to feed those needs..

Wow the amount of ignorance in this thread is amazing. Addiction is caused by entitlement... people suffering from mental illness are trash...

Sometimes this place gets really toxic. Gotta remind myself that this is an echo chamber and most Victorians are more tolerant. Time to move on to a less negative space. Cya folks.

Edited by pherthyl, 31 October 2015 - 10:54 PM.

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#57 Mike K.

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 09:26 AM

I think it all boils down to entitlement.
Like a child crying until they get their way, the adult remains a victim not caring about others.
When they are not self reliant they become dependent on drugs and alcohol and resort to crime to feed those needs.
There will be no conclusions drawn on todays incident, no changes will be made by the perps or the enforcers.
And still we try to make sense of it all.
But should we ever be confronted in our own home by one of these entitled people, we might be surprised at the steps we would take to defend our family.


A break-in will change your life. It's traumatic even if you happen upon a space that was broken into well before you arrived, but to be confronted by an intruder in a home or a business, that must be something else.

My heart goes out to the people who got robbed at the dispensary. That's some serious stuff and knowing what it was like when I got jumped in downtown many years ago, those people will now suffer anxiety and be very fearful in public for some time to come. These incidents change you, sometimes drastically.

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#58 todd

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 10:07 AM

Everyone is desperate to some degree by human nature, a lot would not be accomplished otherwise.
 
 
Criminal desperation-  Are they desperate because of society?


#59 skeptic

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 04:10 PM

Wow the amount of ignorance in this thread is amazing. Addiction is caused by entitlement... people suffering from mental illness are trash...
Sometimes this place gets really toxic. Gotta remind myself that this is an echo chamber and most Victorians are more tolerant. Time to move on to a less negative space. Cya folks.

Don't let the door hit you on your way out. Anyone who defends gun-toting robbers as merely "desperate" is not worthy of the time it takes me to recoil from their posts.

#60 LJ

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 06:42 PM

skeptic, on 01 Nov 2015 - 5:10 PM, said:

Don't let the door hit you on your way out. Anyone who defends gun-toting robbers as merely "desperate" is not worthy of the time it takes me to recoil from their posts.

I seldom agree with pherthyl but a different point of view is always important to stimulate the conversation and make you think a bit. Sometimes my initial reaction to something can use some sober second thought. Having said that I don't think there is any need to call people names or insinuate that they are stupid if they don't agree with your point of view.


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