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Europe terror attacks


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#41 jonny

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 03:39 PM

A political promise is worthless. Reality should dictate what we can and can't do, and at this moment the last thing we should be concerned about is what a politician promised before the events in Paris.



Cart before horse or horse before cart?

#42 Gary H

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 04:39 PM

I agree.

Here are some older warnings,

 

This appears to be a MASSIVE Intelligence Community fail.  According to BBCNews the Paris Prosecutor said "three coordinated teams" appeared to be behind the attacks.  You can only be coordinated if you communicate, so how was this communication missed by the IC?  We will most likely be hearing calls now for increased "tools" - meaning the ability to deploy much more privacy invasive surveillance techniques, including on previously off-limits "citizens".



#43 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 04:45 PM

Just a slight perspective thing here.  Yesterday, 3,400 people died in car crashes, worldwide.

 

43,000 people died per day in World War II causes.

 

115,000 people died today, worldwide.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#44 Sparky

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 05:25 PM

I wonder how many died of cold blooded murder yesterday.

#45 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 05:31 PM

I wonder how many died of cold blooded murder yesterday.

 

129.  But I'm just trying to say, ISIS is not the big killing machine some make out.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#46 spanky123

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 05:32 PM

I wonder how many died of cold blooded murder yesterday.

 

In the US, 44 people were murdered yesterday statistically.



#47 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 05:34 PM

In the US, 44 people were murdered yesterday statistically.

 

And I suppose near 1,000 globally.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#48 Gary H

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 06:29 PM

129.  But I'm just trying to say, ISIS is not the big killing machine some make out.

 

It's all about perspective and I don't think those fleeing for their lives from the Bataclan Club would agree.  This is video of what must be the back of the club where patrons are trying to escape while the terrorists were shooting up the inside.  Warning - it's graphic and horrific.

 


Edited by Gary H, 14 November 2015 - 06:49 PM.


#49 gumgum

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 06:38 PM

Jesus christ.



#50 LJ

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 06:40 PM

There are regional elections in France Dec. 6th. Far right parties like the Front National are expected to make significant gains.


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#51 Bingo

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 10:14 PM

And I suppose near 1,000 globally.

 

Maybe 1000 that we know about.

Actually ISIS thrives on publicity, that is why they make videos everything.

And then it is all on social media as well.

Unfortunately methinks we are going to have to have more monitoring of cell phones, wire tapping and bugging.



#52 AllseeingEye

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 10:17 PM

This appears to be a MASSIVE Intelligence Community fail.  According to BBCNews the Paris Prosecutor said "three coordinated teams" appeared to be behind the attacks.  You can only be coordinated if you communicate, so how was this communication missed by the IC?  We will most likely be hearing calls now for increased "tools" - meaning the ability to deploy much more privacy invasive surveillance techniques, including on previously off-limits "citizens".

Pretty hard to say for certain without knowing the dynamics and internal relationships within the French IC domestically and those with other foreign allied (to France) IC services.

 

We *presume* the French DGSI has a tight relationship with the British Intelligence services or the German BND but really can't know for certain. Inevitably there will be professional rivalries, internally and externally, that will impair or impede certain information sharing activities.

 

The major English-speaking allied nations (US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) enjoy the unique advantages of close communication and information exchange as a result of the very tight "Five Eyes" intelligence relationship between those nations (which incidentally allows each of those member states to rather easily circumvent local laws prohibiting spying on domestic populations by simply handing off that activity to an allied IC). Five Eyes of course has as one of its central pillars the so-called "Echelon" eavesdropping system managed by the NSA. Purely as an aside Echelon naturally is what the mass media calls that program; internal to the group the Five Eyes IC refers to it as something else altogether. Whether the European states including France have an equivalent relationship cannot be known for sure therefore its difficult if not impossible to say with certainty what the DGSI did and did not know in the months, weeks or days leading up to yesterday.



#53 Bingo

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 05:36 AM

Europe's worst security nightmare appears to be coming true:

 

At least one of the terrorists who attacked civilians in Paris on Friday entered the European Union hidden among the wave of refugees arriving on European shores.

One of three bombers who detonated himself at the Stade de France late Friday arrived on the Greek island of Leros on October 3 among numerous Syrian refugees, CNN's Christiane Amanpour reported, citing an unnamed French senator who was briefed by the Ministry of the Interior.

The man declared himself to be Syrian, said his name was Ahmad al Mohammad and was, under new procedures set up to help refugees, issued a new emergency passport.

From Leros, he traveled to Macedonia, Serbia and then Croatia, Amanpour reported.

The fingerprints from the bomber at the Stade de France match those taken when the man was issued his emergency passport on Leros.

more- http://www.cnn.com/2...acks/index.html

 



#54 spanky123

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 07:48 AM

Pretty hard to say for certain without knowing the dynamics and internal relationships within the French IC domestically and those with other foreign allied (to France) IC services.

 

We *presume* the French DGSI has a tight relationship with the British Intelligence services or the German BND but really can't know for certain. Inevitably there will be professional rivalries, internally and externally, that will impair or impede certain information sharing activities.

 

The major English-speaking allied nations (US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) enjoy the unique advantages of close communication and information exchange as a result of the very tight "Five Eyes" intelligence relationship between those nations (which incidentally allows each of those member states to rather easily circumvent local laws prohibiting spying on domestic populations by simply handing off that activity to an allied IC). Five Eyes of course has as one of its central pillars the so-called "Echelon" eavesdropping system managed by the NSA. Purely as an aside Echelon naturally is what the mass media calls that program; internal to the group the Five Eyes IC refers to it as something else altogether. Whether the European states including France have an equivalent relationship cannot be known for sure therefore its difficult if not impossible to say with certainty what the DGSI did and did not know in the months, weeks or days leading up to yesterday.

 

And don't forget, the Liberals want to repeal sections of C-51 which give authorities the powers to monitor this traffic.



#55 spanky123

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 07:51 AM

 

 

I am sure that they will find others that entered the country the same way. As I said before, many of the refugees have no identification and only about 1/3rd are actually from Syria.

 

Ben Carson stated today that the US should close its borders to refugees from the ME. You have to wonder what the US border response will be to Canada if we let so many refugees in with our current plans.


Edited by spanky123, 15 November 2015 - 07:51 AM.


#56 Wayne

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 09:00 AM

129.  But I'm just trying to say, ISIS is not the big killing machine some make out.


Isis is a Jihadist Extremist Militant group deemed a Terrorist organization by the UN. Based on what happen in Paris, they have more than live up to.

Deaths attributed to Isis would be hard to get an accurate number. But could be startling.

https://www.quora.co...t-this-genocide

#57 satellite

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 09:11 AM

Pretty hard to say for certain without knowing the dynamics and internal relationships within the French IC domestically and those with other foreign allied (to France) IC services.

 

We *presume* the French DGSI has a tight relationship with the British Intelligence services or the German BND but really can't know for certain. Inevitably there will be professional rivalries, internally and externally, that will impair or impede certain information sharing activities.

 

The major English-speaking allied nations (US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) enjoy the unique advantages of close communication and information exchange as a result of the very tight "Five Eyes" intelligence relationship between those nations (which incidentally allows each of those member states to rather easily circumvent local laws prohibiting spying on domestic populations by simply handing off that activity to an allied IC). Five Eyes of course has as one of its central pillars the so-called "Echelon" eavesdropping system managed by the NSA. Purely as an aside Echelon naturally is what the mass media calls that program; internal to the group the Five Eyes IC refers to it as something else altogether. Whether the European states including France have an equivalent relationship cannot be known for sure therefore its difficult if not impossible to say with certainty what the DGSI did and did not know in the months, weeks or days leading up to yesterday.

 

Too much focus in recent years on Signalis intelligence. For the billions the allies pour into technical interception there seems to be a reduced focus on human intelligence.  Snowden and other disclosures have made it easier for terrorists to maintain operational security by switching to encrypted and other means, locking security agencies out.  Nothing beats someone at the table working for the other side, theyve moved away from the old fashioned (if messier) work. 


Edited by satellite, 15 November 2015 - 09:12 AM.


#58 Mike K.

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 09:25 AM

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#59 spanky123

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 09:26 AM

Too much focus in recent years on Signalis intelligence. For the billions the allies pour into technical interception there seems to be a reduced focus on human intelligence.  Snowden and other disclosures have made it easier for terrorists to maintain operational security by switching to encrypted and other means, locking security agencies out.  Nothing beats someone at the table working for the other side, theyve moved away from the old fashioned (if messier) work. 

 

Correct although in some cases Snowden also revealed that the NSA has broken or has back doors into several encryption technologies. My guess is that this incident will force legislators to enact laws requiring Apple, Google and others to decrypt data when require and to make sure that their technologies permit this. This has been a sticking point for the past several months but I can't see any hope of them continuing to hold out now. If it turns out that the attackers relied on gmail or some other form of encrypted service to communicate then that would be devastating to those companies.



#60 amor de cosmos

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 09:51 AM

you knew this was coming
 

"When you look at Paris — the toughest gun laws in the world, Paris — nobody had guns but the bad guys. Nobody. Nobody had guns," Trump said at a presidential campaign rally in Beaumont, Texas.

http://www.businessi...attacks-2015-11

surreal pics of paris like this one

190640b07.png

http://www.citylab.c...l-paris/416040/

Edited by amor de cosmos, 15 November 2015 - 09:57 AM.


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