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Bars close way too early


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#1 Willa

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 11:00 AM

So, I've been trying out several local establishments, and I've come to a frightening conclusion: Things in Victoria close way too early.

Was at Spinnakers last night -- a Friday!! -- and they booted people out at 11 p.m. Then made it to the Fernwood Inn before I was kicked out at midnight. A couple of Saturdays ago, a similar thing happened, with us having to leave the Garrick's head at 1 a.m., and the only time I've been to the Beagle Pub, it closed at 11:30.

What gives here? What time are they supposed to stop serving alcohol? I could understand these places closing early on a weeknight, but all the times I've gone have been Fridays and Saturdays!

As I loudly complained about this last night, someone told me Big Bad John's is always open late, and some place in James Bay. I will have to check them out. Anyone know other late places?

#2 G-Man

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 11:17 AM

Well I think that the Beagle is required due to noise bylaw to close at 11:30pm they have tried to change it in the past and failed. Perhaps spinnakers is the same thing. It was not too long ago that all pubs closed at 11pm and everyone was forced to move onto nightclubs. I think the law changed in the 1990s. Anyways I think that most pubs downtown are open till 1am now other than that you will have to go to a nightclub. There is always Soprano's where you can still have a conversation with the person next to you.

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#3 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 11:29 AM

Most bars have a certain number of hours they can be open. The most generous rules are for a lounge/bar attached to a hotel. They can serve for 14 hours. So if you open early (The Douglas Hotel "Dug Out" or "Douggie", and Swans) you must close early. Soprano's opens at noon and can stay open until 2am, and does so 7 nights a week.

Hugo's stays open until 2am most nights and is probably the least "nightclubbish" of any late night spots. I recommend it.
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#4 Walter Moar

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 11:30 AM

Indeed, most of the places you mention are considered more to be "pubs", and tend to close earlier. Most are in residential areas, as mentioned with the Beagle. Venues that are more along the lines of nightclubs / bars are the ones that tend to be open later.

#5 G-Man

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 11:35 AM

What about Canoe is it open till 2 or does it close at 1 as well?

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#6 Galvanized

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 11:39 AM

I can't think of any neighbourhood pub that's open till 2am, only places downtown are open that late.
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#7 atwitsend

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 10:18 PM

The attitude of the people in this boring town is part of the problem. If some of these 'nearly dead' folk had their way bars would be closing at 10 PM instead of 11 etc.

That being said what's the difference if they stayed open later anyways. Have you or haven't you noticed that there are really nothing to bother with except the leftovers that no one else wanted during the night or those that are too damn drunk to even stand up (which is a major problem here too)

It's odd considering the fact there isn't much else to do in Victoria except become a raging alcoholic after only 3 months.

#8 G-Man

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 08:59 AM

I think that you can find other things to occupy yourself if you want to. There are some pretty good theatre performances and the Art Gallery often has good shows. There are of course lots of parks. I also enjoy heading out to a good lecture when able of course you have to track them down. Throw in a few council meeting and there you go, full calendar. Of course I doubt that my version of fun translates to everyone but anyways...

Always been more of a pub person myself anyways you can actually speak to your friends.

#9 LJ

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 12:40 PM

The attitude of the people in this boring town is part of the problem. If some of these 'nearly dead' folk had their way bars would be closing at 10 PM instead of 11 etc.

That being said what's the difference if they stayed open later anyways. Have you or haven't you noticed that there are really nothing to bother with except the leftovers that no one else wanted during the night or those that are too damn drunk to even stand up (which is a major problem here too)

It's odd considering the fact there isn't much else to do in Victoria except become a raging alcoholic after only 3 months.



Man you got to get a hobby!!

If you can't find anything better to do in Victoria you're not looking.

As G-man said there are libraries, parks, theatres, museums, hiking trails, clubs, road rallys, racing, hunting, fishing, golfing, scuba diving, orienteering, volunteering, etc etc etc.

You might find something better than leftovers at one of these venues.

#10 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 08:58 PM

As far as I can determine, atwitsend could well be reacting to the "closed" aspect of social life in Victoria, which (he might not recognize) has little to do with closing hours and that sort of stuff.

It is VERY VERY difficult here to find a way "in." You go to bars, thinking you can find "your" group, but really -- what do you have in common except for the bar? atwitsend is absolutely right if what he's suggesting is that people in Victoria are closed, possessive of their little niches, and thoroughly unwilling to let "strangers" penetrate.

"Real" Victorians (the ones who are actually from here, trying to make a living, vs. the ones who are here to retire) are loathe to admit you to "their" group(s), unless they've known you for a couple of decades and you too are an underdog who has suffered. The retired newcomers (with enough money to exempt themselves from the real economic travails of the city) create yet another separate community.

It's a funny, stratified city. Perhaps it comes from a long history of (a) relatively well-off retirees (possibly including those who in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and even 80s worked for the Province, which represents yet another "ghetto" within the ghetto that Victoria can be -- "can be," not "must be"); those folks don't necessarily want to mingle with the "poor" locals; and (b) the (historically) limited economic options available to the locals here, which force people into becoming small scale entrepreneurs and /or shop- and inn-keepers (something "in service," including lawyer services, etc., with limited options), where everybody is kind of competing against everybody else on this piddling low level of things.

I think Victoria is opening up a lot more now. But geez, I sure wouldn't want to be dependent on Victoria for love and community. It's still far too small-minded, bar closing hours late or early notwithstanding.
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#11 G-Man

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 01:57 PM

^ Wouldn't you say that VV is an argument against what you just said? I believe that there are newcomers and born and raised both on this site.

Mot that I don't see cliques here but there are welcoming people as well. Heck I stayed. I think Vancouver is Waaaayyyy worse for this.

#12 Caramia

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 02:33 PM

I think it is opening up a lot more now too, but I do understand what Ms B is saying. I suppose I am a typical Victoria local in that way. Friends I have known for 20 years, who went through the hard times with me, who shared houses, couches, paychecks - when there weren't enough of any of those to go around, do have a bond that is hard to extend to a newcomer. But I am really glad for the fresh energy and fresh blood that we are seeing now, and I hope I can be more inviting into my own circles as time goes on.

#13 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 05:11 PM

@ G-man: sure, VV is an exception, but perhaps that just proves the rule (and Caramia's right in that things are changing somewhat, too -- as Victoria's economy diversifies, it will become more open, socially, too).

Re. VV and the internet generally: some of us know one another, we can even socialize (occasionally), and we're all very different from one another in every regard, yet we get along because we always come back to the shared interest in what's going on in Victoria, urbanism, etc. (unlike a shared interest in, say, hanging out at a particular bar, where that's all you have in common). We want to see positive change happen. Or take the photographers here (see Victoria Grid Project), who have monthly meetings. But many (make that most) of the people on VV don't know each other in "real life," and many are just lurking too. For the most part, we're here using avatars, which adds another level of "play" -- and also distance, in the sense that it signals, "don't yank my chain, this is not me, it's my avatar." (Ms. B, for example, is so-and-so's evil twin, not a real person.)

And that's ok, but when you're hanging out at that level, it's not yet a social life. It's certainly very expressive, and that's good. Perhaps it even lets some people use VV as a conversation starter when they're at that bar, wondering what to talk about with that stranger they'd like to get to know. Given Victoria's "six degrees" (which here means at most 3.5), there's even a chance that the intriguing stranger is a forumer...!

You do need a hobby, an avocation, something to get you involved in some "doings" in your community/ neighbourhood/ area of interest, though, that's for sure. And yes, you're right, that's also true of most places.
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#14 mat

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 04:52 PM

Interesting thread as it covers many aspects of life here in Victoria.

The drinking/closing time restrictions are a hangover from prohibition and do not reflect contemporary life. Two of the aspects of increased density, which I support, is the number of residents in a smaller region living in smaller homes and condos, and the concentrated variety of lifestyles. Living in Belgium for 13 years I found few entertained at home as they are quite small, rather using cafes to meet. Almost all cafes welcome children, and stay open until the last customer is ready to leave - no official closing times. The fact there was no rush to drink up before 11pm meant drunken crowds on the streets were avoided. The UK this year abolished official closing times as a response to often violent crowds in city centers after all the pubs closed.

Increased density means we need a more liberal, open-minded city center catering to singles, young and old and families. Noise by-law enforcement should ensure peaceful nights (and days) for local residents. We should also recognize our 24hr work society - nearly a quarter of the labour force do shift work with odd hours and need to be catered.

As to the "cliqueiness" (is that a word?) of Victoria, I tend to disagree. We have found it very easy to meet people from all walks of life, and my wife who is Belgian, has commented many times how open, friendly and welcoming people in Victoria are. We often meet the same people attending classical music concerts, pub folk nights and hockey games. An advantage in this region is the wealth of opportunities for learning, participation and volunteering - everything from recreation center programs to counting birds for the nature conservancy. All these programs offer a means to meet with like-minded people.

Mat

#15 Caramia

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 12:34 AM

I am so pleased that Victoria is opening up to you and your wife like that Mat, makes me feel proud to know we are able to provide a good reception.

#16 Holden West

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 09:51 AM

Here's an article on the bar closing hours controversy from friggin' 1990. How long have we been debating this issue?

The great bar debate

Barbara McLintock
The Province Aug 16, 1990
(Copyright The Province (Vancouver) 1990)

Victoria aldermen are considering shortening the hours of admission to bars and cabarets to curb late-night rowdyism.

But downtown bar owners are so upset they're prepared to pay tens of thousands of dollars in extra taxes each year instead.

Cabaret owner Duncan Morrison said yesterday that a surtax applied to all hotels and cabarets could be used to pay for extra policing downtown as the patrons leave in the wee hours of the morning.

But the city proposal could cost every bar "as much as $100,000 in net losses for the year," Morrison told a council committee.

Under current rules, last call in most bars and cabarets is 2 a.m. with all patrons required to leave by 2:30 a.m.

Under the new plan, the bars would have to stop admitting patrons at 1 a.m. Liquor would still be on sale until 2 a.m., and the bars would have until 3 a.m. to get everyone out.


The recommendations came from a task force which studied downtown disturbances this spring.

It made the recommendation, it said, because of police evidence that as many as 250 people a night were leaving private clubs and legions at their shutdown time of 1 a.m. and heading for the cabarets.

The result, said the task force, is that "at 2:30 a.m. up to 2,800 cabaret patrons leave the downtown premises at once, which can cause severe disturbances."

Morrison said those late-night patrons are often crucial to the profitability of cabarets.

Another city-sponsored study said that "cabarets . . . are not compatible in any way with the requirements of a residential area or tourist/hotel accommodation."

"The entire venue of a typical successful cabaret is orientated to music, dancing, young patrons and a late-night crowd."

Ald. Jan Greenwood, who chairs the council committee, said it's obvious that more information on the effects of the change and options is needed before the issue goes to council for a final decision.

The next meeting will be held in October.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
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#17 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 12:25 PM

^ It's interesting how the entire emphasis was and still is on shutting things down, vs. controlling matters by enforcing existing bylaws (against public drunkenness, public urination, public disturbance/ disorder, etc.).

But how much can you shut down and keep shutting down before you've squeezed the very viability out of a thing and made it dead?

Love this quote, by the way:

"The entire venue of a typical successful cabaret is orientated to music, dancing, young patrons and a late-night crowd."


Ah yes, "...music !!, dancing !!!, young patrons !!!! and a late-night crowd !!!!!."

Definitely gotta shut that down. Everyone knows those youthful bastards can't behave anyway, right? I mean, it's hopeless to try to enforce any sort of standards, right? They're all jerks until they hit 55 and retire here. Then they're golden, downing Viagra and sleeping pills.
When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

#18 LJ

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 07:30 PM

!![/SIZE], dancing !!!, young patrons !!!! and a late-night crowd !!!!!."

Definitely gotta shut that down. Everyone knows those youthful bastards can't behave anyway, right? I mean, it's hopeless to try to enforce any sort of standards, right? They're all jerks until they hit 55 and retire here. Then they're golden, downing Viagra and sleeping pills.





Some "oldsters" actually enjoy staying up later than 9pm and horror of horrors actually enjoy music and dancing. Remember, they were brought up on the Beatles and Rolling Stones not Swing and Sway with Sammy Kaye. Maybe if you had said "until they hit 75" you might have been a little closer to the actuality.
Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#19 Holden West

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 07:48 PM

Er, she was being funny.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#20 Pyroteknik

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 09:02 PM

I go to a little warehouse space by the waterfront downtown that lets me dance until 5.30 am ;) Sure it would be nice to be able to buy a beer at that time, but whatever.

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