1327 replies to this topic

[Bingo]

Looks like Mayor Helps wants the police board to spend more money defending her actions to the Solicitor General. 

 

https://lisahelpsvic...pd-or-anywhere/

 

A report that is unlikely to be produced before the election.

[Bingo]

Meanwhile, at FOCUS magazine...

 

The Focus report is already out.

http://www.focusonvi...f-victoria-r14/

[rmpeers]

Having known several people who suffered sexual and other harrassment in the workplace, I have a sense of how painful it is. It's only made worse, and the victim made powerless, when those in power back the harrasser.

I cannot imagine how the victims felt when the mayor proclaimed Elsner to be the best thing that ever happened to this city.

[Sparky]

The Focus report is already out.

http://www.focusonvi...f-victoria-r14/

 

That is their September 6 article. A lot has happened since the September 26 release of the OPCC report of September 26. I am sure David B is hard at work again.

[Sparky]

It would appear that Mayor Helps takes issue with some of the criticisms contained within the report on the investigation of the workplace behaviour of former chief of police Frank Elsner, published by the Office of the Police Complaints Commisioner on September 26, a mere 3 weeks or so before the municipal election. Here are a couple of her concerns copied from her campaign web page. 

 

1. We followed the advice given by our legal counsel at each step along the way.
2. We have serious concerns over the OPCC report as it relates to the process we followed and the board will be addressing these with the Solicitor General.             https://lisahelpsvic...pd-or-anywhere/

Stan Lowe is clearly dissatisfied with the way two co-chairs of the Victoria performed some of their duties while overseeing the internal disciplinary investigation.

 

This whole business is complicated. It took years to get to the bottom of this mess. There is an enourmous amount of material that will confuse you. Perhaps the following excerpts will help explain why The OPCC may be at odds with the co-chairs of the police board. Perhaps it all started when Mr. Lowe of the OPCC learned about the progress of the internal investigation from the media.

 

Below is one excerpt quoted from Focus on Victoria. The remaining quotes are from the OPCC report. Links are provided for your reading pleasure.

 

The fact that there was a disciplinary investigation underway was not made public. Here are the first responses from the co-chairs when the media got wind of the rumour.

ON DECEMBER 4, 2015, Mayor Helps was asked by a Global TV journalist whether Victoria Police Chief Frank Elsner was being investigated. Helps responded: “No. The [Police] Board has full confidence in our chief. He’s the best thing that’s happened to this town and Esquimalt in a long time.”

http://www.focusonvi...f-victoria-r14/

 

On the same day Mayor Desjardins notified the OPCC of how she answered a similar question. (note that this was sent after business hours on a Friday)

 

[Email sent from Co-Chair Desjardins to Deputy Commissioner on December 4, 2015 at 5:42 PM]

The question that I was asked was “Is there an investigation at this time regarding the chief?. My response was “there is not an investigation at this time”(and emphasized the at this time) because we had concluded an investigation and our decision given, and board informed of all documentation.

 

 

 

Interestingly enough it would appear that there was an email exchange on that very same topic between the co-chairs that started in the wee hours of the morning before December 4.

 

[Co-Chair Desjardins to Co-Chair Helps on December 3, 2015 at 2:32 AM]

[Counsel] Marcia McNeil called me again last evening. She indicated the rumour may be further afield ie within the police agencies. This means it may reach the media. I believe for this reason we have to make a decision asap and then call the board to inform them of it. Please look at your calendar to see what could be cleared to move things up. This must be top priority in my mind

 

[Co-Chair Helps to Co-Chair Desjardins on December 3, 2015 at 5:45AM]Can we have a board meeting Monday morning at 8am?

 

 

[Co-Chair Desjardins to Co-Chair Helps on December 3, 2015 at 6:07 AM]

I think this is going to pop in the next 2 days, they need to be informed. I will clear my calendar for it as necessary, do you have any flexibility today. So you soon. I have written the questions we are to ask.

 

OK so once the cat is out of the bag and the secrecy is no longer a factor, the questions from the media get harder. Mayor Desjardins is asked if there was any kind of relationship between the former chief and the recipient of the "Tweets". 

 

According to the OPCC, the co-chairs were briefed by the police board's investigator on the relationship situation as follows...

 

Although on the evidence I find the Chief did not have a sexual relationship with [A], I do find that the exchange of “salacious” and “sexually charged” Tweets over a period of approximately six months and the hug and kiss in the office do constitute an “inappropriate relationship” with [A] who is married to a member of [VicPD].

 

... but the information provided to the media (and subsequently the public at large) was somewhat different than the information provided to them by their investigator. 

 

The investigation indicated that there was no relationship, but it was an inappropriate use of social media. [Mayor Barbara Desjardins, CFAX news, December 6, 2015

 

It probably would have been prudent to offer no comment due to confidentiality reasons, but instead the response appears to discount facts as opposed to not discussing them at all. If you read the 59 page report you will ascertain that it was the misleading of the public that drew the ire of the OPCC.

 

Now for the juicy part. Adam Stirling of C-FAX asked the question earlier this week of Mayor Desjardins and she was unable to answer because she did not have her notes in front of her but apparently after the investigation was complete a copy of the reprimand signed by both of the co-chairs was given to both former chief Elsner and the OPCC.

 

But guess what...the copies are different. There is a slight change of wording that would have the OPCC believe that the former chief and the husband of the tweet recipient had a man to man chat and worked things out. The copy that went into the former chief's file however just gave an instruction to do so.

 

OPCC Version:

We understand that you have met several times with the affected officer and have and are taking steps to address your working relationship with him.

 

 

Former chief’s Version:

You will meet with the affected officer within your chain of command with an appropriate third part (sic) to speak to your actions and to take steps to address your working relationship with him.

 

 

https://opcc.bc.ca/w...eport-FINAL.pdf

 

There is more to this story that is probably better left for the professionals to explain. I just had trouble understanding how things could get so messed up if everyone was following their legal advice.

[Bingo]

Thank-you for those details Sparky. 

It appears there was a cover-up, and I suspect that most of VicPD knows about it.

[Bingo]

Thank-you for those details Sparky. 

It appears there was a cover-up, and I suspect that most of VicPD knows about it.

On December 9, 2015, following a unanimous non-confidence vote, the Victoria Police Union issued a media release stating:

 

1. The Victoria City Police Union has no confidence in the way in which the Police Board and its Chairs handled the incident involving Chief Elsner’s inappropriate conduct. 

 

2.Based on the actions and conduct of Chief Elsner, which the Police Board has found to be improper, the Victoria City Police Union has no confidence in his ability to continue to lead the Victoria Police Department.

 

3. The Victoria City Police Union has requested that the Office of the Police Complaint Commissioner order an independent Public Trust investigation into these matters. The BC Police Act should be applied equally to all members of the Victoria Police Department; regardless of rank.

 

https://opcc.bc.ca/w...eport-FINAL.pdf

[rjag]

^ Good catch Bingo, this part about the Police Union having no confidence hasnt been discussed. For them to issue a press release is very telling in itself of the frustration they must have been dealing with

[spanky123]

A report that is unlikely to be produced before the election.

 

The SG isn't doing anything even if the police board makes a complaint. The SG is going to overturn the decisions of 3 judges, the PCC and the investigators?

 

Reading her blog it is clear that lying to the public and the PCC doesn't bother Helps, but being accused of covering up assault and sexual harassment is hurting her with her tribe. Though she refuses to state where she thinks the report is unfair or in error, the claim about having the SG looking into the report buys her some time until the election in her mind.

[spanky123]

^ Good catch Bingo, this part about the Police Union having no confidence hasnt been discussed. For them to issue a press release is very telling in itself of the frustration they must have been dealing with

 

The union is sexist.

[rjag]

The union is sexist.

 

Refer to my post over at the CoV election page

 

Narcissistic Personality Disorder Traits: No Accountability
One of the most destructive and disturbing narcissistic personality disorder traits is a severe lack of accountability. This is in fact one of the most powerful warnings that you are dealing with an individual who has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
How do you know when you’re dealing with this narcissistic personality disorder trait?
This narcissistic personality disorder trait shows up when this person never admits being wrong. It was not their fault, someone else was to blame, and they will employ all sorts of tactics and defences to avoid being accountable.
Let’s look at what some of the defences and tactics of this narcissistic personality disorder trait
• Avoidance:Refusing to recognise or acknowledge the incident as real or important to you
• Excuses: Making up stories or reasons for the behaviour that are not genuine or valid excuses
• Accusations:Blaming someone else for the wrongdoing
• False Apology: Saying a ‘sorry’ that is not a genuine apology, and expecting you to accept it
• Confusion: Creating antics over trivial points in the conversation to shift and confuse the focus
• Projection: Stating ‘what you did wrong’ regarding the particular topic by using ammunition from the past that has nothing to do with the present incident
• Using Allies:Quoting people real or imagined to back their ‘story’ of excuses, or to discredit you
• Shutting down: Unwilling to have the conversation or abandoning the sceneto avoid scrutiny
• Shifting Focus:Responding with displeasure to your body language or the tone of your voice to steer the conversation away from the wrongdoing
• Persecution :Stating how bad your accusations are, and what a terrible person you are to accuse
• Denial:Stating that it was incidents in your past, and your fears and insecurities which causes you to make these accusations
• Discrediting: Stating that you are such a negative person and always look for the ‘conspiracy theory’ in your conversations
• Threatening: Citing abandonment or punishment if you continue with the accusation
• Entitlement: Demanding that you recognise the positive things they have done for you, andthat its unfair for you to focus on the negatives
• Lying: Stating they did grant explanation, reassurance, or did do the credible thing when these actions were not forthcoming
• Condemnation: Continuing the story of “I did do the right thing” and then being incensed at you for calling them a liar
• Justification: Stating ‘I did it’ because of your behaviour and because you make me do these things
• Triggering: Using a maiming comment related or unrelated to incite you to anger and shift blame
• Competition: Stating all the things that they are not happy about with you, as a ‘tit for tat’ retaliation, rather than addressing the issue at hand

[rmpeers]

The SG isn't doing anything even if the police board makes a complaint. The SG is going to overturn the decisions of 3 judges, the PCC and the investigators?

Reading her blog it is clear that lying to the public and the PCC doesn't bother Helps, but being accused of covering up assault and sexual harassment is hurting her with her tribe. Though she refuses to state where she thinks the report is unfair or in error, the claim about having the SG looking into the report buys her some time until the election in her mind.

Yes. Just need to throw doubt on the report to get her supporters to disbelieve it. Whatever it takes to win. Same motivation that caused the very behaviour that the OPCC called her out on.

I hope the OPCC will say something to reaffirm their findings. The report is pretty clear and objective. You can tell the OPCC didn't take lightly the decision to criticize the mayors. But given the bad behaviour, they had no choice but to report it.

[Bingo]

 The report is pretty clear and objective. You can tell the OPCC didn't take lightly the decision to criticize the mayors. 

 

This issue is not a male vs female issue when it comes down to the credibility of the mayors. 

It is about who do you believe, and we saw that with the Christine Blasey Ford testimony which I thought was totally credible.

[Sparky]

^ Good catch Bingo, this part about the Police Union having no confidence hasnt been discussed. For them to issue a press release is very telling in itself of the frustration they must have been dealing with

 

I think we did discuss this back in 2015 when the union made public their take on the internal disiplanary findings. I believe that this disgruntlement was instrumental in the OPCC jumping in and taking the reigns.  

[rjag]

I think we did discuss this back in 2015 when the union made public their take on the internal disiplanary findings. I believe that this disgruntlement was instrumental in the OPCC jumping in and taking the reigns.  

 

Yup, I mean it hasnt been discussed this past week, the focus has been on the Mayors actions and this part wasnt really high lited

[Sparky]

^ Roger that. I think the union has played an instrumental roll in the protection of their member. Good on them to hold management's feet to the fire on this one.

 

My heart goes out to the officer caught in the middle of this mess. When a boss get's tangled up with a guy's wife regardless of the details...it's never going to end well.

 

...then to witness the slight of hand that may have taken place to further a personal and/or a political agenda...well that's just not right.

 

Look the police and the board that provides oversight to the police need to not only be held to the highest standards...they need to appear to be held to the highest standards.

 

We need to expect nothing but the highest form of accountability from everyone involved.

 

I like Stan Lowe's attention to detail.

[David Bratzer]

Here is some additional context in the wake of the OPCC report that came out last week:

 

On August 24, 2015 at 9:30 am, Frank Elsner was scheduled to testify at the BC Human Rights Tribunal... <snip>

 

On August 19, 2015, Mayor Lisa Helps and Mayor Barb Desjardins learned about the Twitter exchanges and concerns that Elsner may have had an inappropriate relationship... <snip>

[Sparky]

^ Thanks for that David. Well worth the read folks.

 

Ultimately, five of the eight allegations were upheld by the BC Human Rights Tribunal, resulting in the largest “injury to dignity” award for political belief discrimination in Canadian history.

 

Wow!

[Stephen Andrew]

look, if you believe many accounts, a team of deputies set this all up to take him down and he stepped right into their trap. how else do you think they got their hands on the twitter dms.

That's not correct.

Actually what happened is the communications team on occasion tweets out for the Chief. They would probably use Hootsuite or simlar social media platform. The communications team found the direct messages. From their they would have taken the issue to their supervisor whi would likely have been a Deputy Chief. The Deputy Chief would typically take the matter to the co-chairs of the police board.

Elsner used Victoria Police equipment and resources. He didn’t realize his direct messages would appear on other platforms. It was his error.

[spanky123]

That's not correct.

Actually what happened is the communications team on occasion tweets out for the Chief. They would probably use Hootsuite or simlar social media platform. The communications team found the direct messages. From their they would have taken the issue to their supervisor whi would likely have been a Deputy Chief. The Deputy Chief would typically take the matter to the co-chairs of the police board.

Elsner used Victoria Police equipment and resources. He didn’t realize his direct messages would appear on other platforms. It was his error.

 

So I am assuming then that the Deputy Chief that brought this forward was not the Deputy Chief that was promoted or do I have it backwards?