1327 replies to this topic

[rmpeers]

Stirling's segment from yesterday morning has been posted on the cfax website. It is essential. I wish every Victoria voter could hear it. It would be a game changer.

[Greg]

Stirling's segment from yesterday morning has been posted on the cfax website. It is essential. I wish every Victoria voter could hear it. It would be a game changer.

 

Where? Do you have a link, I didn't actually see it.

[Sparky]

^ http://www.iheartrad...oplay=1.8507085

[Rob Randall]

I would love a public inquiry to find out who in the OPCC created a false and defamatory story in order to scapegoat Helps and Desjardins but I'm afraid the world's best investigators are already busy working for Saudi Arabia trying to find the rogue killers of Kashoggi.

[rmpeers]

After Stirling's piece yesterday, I wonder if Team Helps regrets their brilliant strategy of trying to paint CFAX as some sort of nefarious male-dominated sexist organization?

[Nparker]

After Stirling's piece yesterday, I wonder if Team Helps regrets their brilliant strategy of trying to paint CFAX as some sort of nefarious male-dominated sexist organization?

Team Helps regrets nothing.

MVHA*

 

* Make Victoria Helps-less Again

[Bob Fugger]

Stirling's segment from yesterday morning has been posted on the cfax website. It is essential. I wish every Victoria voter could hear it. It would be a game changer.

 

"Truth may walk through the world unarmed.  If you don't lie, you'll never harm yourself.  You never have to worry about covering your tracks."

     - Lisa Helps' tattoo

 

"...Err, hmm, it is a coincidence: everything is a coincidence.  You don't have to believe me: but I know in my heart, Adam, that I'm telling you the truth."

     - Lisa Helps

 

Counterpoint:

 

Edited by Bob Fugger, 18 October 2018 - 11:42 AM.

[Sparky]

Spin 

: a special point of view, emphasis, or interpretation presented for the purpose of influencing opinion

 

: to draw out and twist as in yarn.

 

So in the absence of a public enquiry at this point, in order to understand exactly what happened to cause all this mess, we need to review not what was said but what was written. 

 

Otherwise matters will just be made worse. Let’s put aside the  he’s the best thing that ever happened comment and focus on the we were just doing what we were advised to do comment.

 

Below is a statement published by Mayor Barb Desjardins on her web page. As a backgrounder to this, Peter Ryan, the man in charge of governance of the police board complained to the Police Commissioner that the board was being kept in the dark by the Co-Chairs. The co-chairs told Ryan that they didn’t have an official complaint to share and that they would share what they have when they get it. Rollie the Deputy Police Complaints Commissioner kind of stated that based on Ryan telling Rollie that there wasn’t much to know yet, Rollie cools his jets. 

 

Now let’s get back to the spin. This is what Dejardins would have the public believe.

 

Mayor Helps and I were walked through the process by the PCC and our lawyer.  On October 30, 2015, our lawyer advised us that the Deputy PCC had confirmed that “all steps taken to date [had] been appropriate”.   That specifically included the limited disclosure that had been made to the Police Board.

https://mayorbarbdes...weebly.com/blog

 

 

Here is the email that the Deputy PCC sent to the co-chair’s lawyer.

 

Stan won’t be available to speak to the chairs, he just wanted me to reiterate that he is disappointed that his advice wasn’t followed previously and he was considering his options. He feels that he was quite clear in that the board members needed to have full disclosure. I would suggest that any report received by the chairs should be disclosed to the board and they should be included in any decision making. This office is entitled to receive a copy at some point, it might be a good idea to share it with us at the same time but I’ll leave that up to you and the board. 

https://vicpd.ca/sit...iled-160506.pdf

 

Notice that the co-chairs were advised by the OPCC to include the entire board in "decision making" ? I don't think that happened. I think the decision was made in the wee hours of the morning and then the board was advised of the co-chair's decision. 

 

Could this be one of the reasons that Stan Lowe got pissed off and commenced an External Public Trust Inquiry or did he just change his mind like Desjardins suggests?

 

After the discipline issue we had recently concluded was leaked to the press, the PCC changed his mind [...] 

[David Bratzer]

One question I have: Why are these files so difficult to locate on Court Services Online?  This was a civil matter.  There is no publication ban on the most recent BC Supreme Court decision, released last week. The named parties were Chief Constable Frank J. Elsner and the Victoria Police Board. The docket # was S180501.  When I search for any of those terms on Court Services Online, I can't find anything.

 

Same deal with a previous court decision released in 2016.  The named parties in that decision included "The Police Complaint Commissioner and Mayors Barbara Desjardins and Lisa Helps in their capacity as Internal Discipline Authority". The docket # was S180501.  

 

Why isn't the public able to see these files on CSO?  Normally you would be able to pull up the files and then pay a small fee to see the affidavits, petitions etc. that each lawyer filed.

[Nparker]

 

I think the decision was made in the wee hours of the morning and then the board was advised...

Does this remind anyone of a recent decision that came from #1 Centennial Square? This seems to be a pattern for at least one of the two (hopefully soon-to-be-former) mayors.

[Sparky]

^^ Good point David. Who should we ask about that?

[spanky123]

 

One question I have: Why are these files so difficult to locate on Court Services Online?  This was a civil matter.  There is no publication ban on the most recent BC Supreme Court decision, released last week. The named parties were Chief Constable Frank J. Elsner and the Victoria Police Board. The docket # was S180501.  When I search for any of those terms on Court Services Online, I can't find anything.

 

Same deal with a previous court decision released in 2016.  The named parties in that decision included "The Police Complaint Commissioner and Mayors Barbara Desjardins and Lisa Helps in their capacity as Internal Discipline Authority". The docket # was S180501.  

 

Why isn't the public able to see these files on CSO?  Normally you would be able to pull up the files and then pay a small fee to see the affidavits, petitions etc. that each lawyer filed.

 

 

This has been the case since day one. 

[spanky123]

 

Could this be one of the reasons that Stan Lowe got pissed off and commenced an External Public Trust Inquiry or did he just change his mind like Desjardins suggests?

 

There are a lot of outstanding issues in my opinion. Number one is to what extent Del Manak and Steve Ing (the deputy chiefs) knew what was going on and what, if anything, did they do to address it. In my opinion that would speak to the ongoing leadership and moral of VicPD. I understand that Steve Ing has left and we know that Del Manak was promoted to the role of chief by the Mayors without any competitive process or external review.

[Bingo]

Helps got her seasoning with "spin" during years of not entirely informing the public about what was really going on during various stages of bridge construction, problems with the steel, substandard repair work and other delays.

[rmpeers]

Helps got her seasoning with "spin" during years of not entirely informing the public about what was really going on during various stages of bridge construction, problems with the steel, substandard repair work and other delays.

But it's all gone well under her leadership, right?

[Bingo]

It is interesting that after all of the publicity in the media such as Focus, CFAX and this forum, both Mayors have been returned to office apparently unscathed by the Elsner Investigation.

Perhaps the lengthy debates were too much for voters to digest or even care about especially when the mayors had no strong opposition.

Or was it  "better the devil you know than the devil you don't"

[Nparker]

You can stick a fork in this story - it's done. Odds are a public inquiry isn't going to happen now. What's the point since wasting money and re-electing liars seems to be A-OK with a good segment of the voters.

[spanky123]

The PCC report had one line which made all of the difference. The report stated that discipline should not be handled by the Mayors. Helps and Desjardins seized on that line to excuse themselves from their behaviour and to effectively blame the system.

Obviously most people were willing to give them the benefit of the doubt instead of digging in and really understanding what happened.

[Bernard]

It is interesting that after all of the publicity in the media such as Focus, CFAX and this forum, both Mayors have been returned to office apparently unscathed by the Elsner Investigation.
Perhaps the lengthy debates were too much for voters to digest or even care about especially when the mayors had no strong opposition.
Or was it "better the devil you know than the devil you don't"

[Bernard]

Why did people vote for Desjardins? She had no serious challenger.

Why did people vote Helps? Because the alternatives looked worse than a bad mayor. I know a lot of people that voted Helps relectlantly because Hammond gave them no evidence he could actually be an effective mayor and the other two guys just did not engage the public on the doorstep. Helps won because people had more confidence in her flawed history than Hammond.

To win an election like mayor of Victoria you need to have a lot of door-knocking volunteers IDing your support and then make sure they all vote by tracking everyone that voted as they voted. Guess what, only Helps did that.

Hammond should have had a team of 100 volunteers IDing the vote starting in July. That is elections 101