11498 replies to this topic

[dasmo]

My solution is a pig farm with a methane plant deep underground. Plus a cool geodesic dome with bungee cords attached for some exciting chainsaw fights!

[LeoVictoria]

I don't recall any time living on the coast where we have had gas shortages, any examples you can think of?

I am sure if we had a real disaster, say an earthquake there would be electricity and gasoline shortages on a mass scale. My solution is keep a few jerry cans in the garage, what is your solution for the electric car? A giant UPS (uninterruptible power supply)?

Same as yours.

[Mike K.]

Generally speaking any time there is a storm brewing just go fill up the tank. You'll have to do it anyway.

[tjv]

^so stockpiles of gasoline to power generators to power your electric car.  Hilarious.  Its like the person in parts of the US thinking they are helping the environment for their zero emission car completely forgetting about the diesel/natural gas/coal fired generator plants used to produce the electricity

 

Why not invest in a giant UPS to ensure you don't have to pollute the environment?

[LeoVictoria]

Because I already have a generator.

[LeoVictoria]

^so stockpiles of gasoline to power generators to power your electric car. Hilarious. Its like the person in parts of the US thinking they are helping the environment for their zero emission car completely forgetting about the diesel/natural gas/coal fired generator plants used to produce the electricity

Why not invest in a giant UPS to ensure you don't have to pollute the environment?

As for running an EV with coal powered electricity, in the dirtiest states in the US an EV is still equivalent to a 40MPG car so even there it’s a pretty clean choice. And gets cleaner over it’s lifetime as the grid rapidly decarbonizes. Unlike a gas car that only gets dirtier over its lifetime.

Here of course we have 98% clean energy and an ev is equivalent to more like 160+MPG

Edited by LeoVictoria, 06 January 2019 - 01:15 PM.

[SimonH]

How does running air conditioning/heating affect the mileage performance in an electric vehicle. Is it a noticeable or insignificant draw on the battery ?

[Mike K.]

This is hilarious!

[LeoVictoria]

How does running air conditioning/heating affect the mileage performance in an electric vehicle. Is it a noticeable or insignificant draw on the battery ?

Noticeable for sure. AC is not a big load, maybe 400W to keep the car cold even on the hottest days.
Heat depends on whether the car has a heat pump or simply a resistive heater. Resistive heater will draw a few kW when heating the car and perhaps 1kW to keep it warm. Models with heat pumps only use about a third of that.

Basically winter range is likely to be about 80% of summer range for my car. Less if it’s all a bunch of short trips in the cold where it’s often blowing max heat.

Edited by LeoVictoria, 06 January 2019 - 06:44 PM.

[tjv]

As for running an EV with coal powered electricity, in the dirtiest states in the US an EV is still equivalent to a 40MPG car so even there it’s a pretty clean choice. And gets cleaner over it’s lifetime as the grid rapidly decarbonizes. Unlike a gas car that only gets dirtier over its lifetime.

Here of course we have 98% clean energy and an ev is equivalent to more like 160+MPG

Incorrect, its 29 MPG:

 

The report — authored by Michael Sivak and Brandon Schoettle —  notes that an electric car recharged by a coal-fired plant produces as much CO2 as a gasoline-powered car that gets 29 miles per gallon. 

 

https://www.investor...global-warming/

 

Since you believe so much in electric cars, why do you have a fossil fuel burning generator and not a UPS ready to run your house during the next blackout?

[LeoVictoria]

Incorrect, its 29 MPG:

 

The report — authored by Michael Sivak and Brandon Schoettle —  notes that an electric car recharged by a coal-fired plant produces as much CO2 as a gasoline-powered car that gets 29 miles per gallon. 

 

https://www.investor...global-warming/

 

Since you believe so much in electric cars, why do you have a fossil fuel burning generator and not a UPS ready to run your house during the next blackout?

 

I don't know of a grid in the world that is 100% coal powered. Do you?   Even if there was one, 29MPG is pretty respectable.   Way better than current vehicle fleet average.

 

As for generator vs UPS, I have no idea what point you imagine you are making.   As if the fuel source for an activity that happens perhaps 0.001% of the of time is important or relevant.   

Edited by LeoVictoria, 06 January 2019 - 10:22 PM.

[Mike K.]

The “I'm better than you because I drive an eco-friendly EV” scam is playing out really well here.

Next up we should talk about how the battery components are sourced and what’s done with the old ones.

[tjv]

^well said Mike 

[Jason-L]

Jay Leno's Garage takes a look at the new prototype Mercedes EQC 400 electric boogaloo.

[jonny]

As for running an EV with coal powered electricity, in the dirtiest states in the US an EV is still equivalent to a 40MPG car so even there it’s a pretty clean choice. And gets cleaner over it’s lifetime as the grid rapidly decarbonizes. Unlike a gas car that only gets dirtier over its lifetime.

 

Fair enough, but coal is far dirtier than gasoline in terms of how it is mined and and the totality of the emissions produced by running a thermal coal steam generator (open pit mining, mountain top removal mining, water contamination, NOx, SO2, particulates, mercury, lead, leftover coal ash, coal transport and mining itself are very energy intensive, etc.). 

 

This "equivalency" stuff needs to be taken with a massive helping of salt. Burning coal is by far worse than burning gasoline in every respect. The only thing coal has going for it is it's pretty hard to oil a bird with coal. 

Edited by jonny, 07 January 2019 - 10:38 AM.

[LeoVictoria]

The “I'm better than you because I drive an eco-friendly EV” scam is playing out really well here.

Next up we should talk about how the battery components are sourced and what’s done with the old ones.

Nice strawman Mike.

Yep some battery components have problematic sourcing just like any other resource we extract. As for what we do with old ones, they are reused in stationary storage projects (where there is huge demand) and can be recycled. They won’t be thrown out.

[LeoVictoria]

Fair enough, but coal is far dirtier than gasoline in terms of how it is mined and and the totality of the emissions produced by running a thermal coal steam generator (open pit mining, mountain top removal mining, water contamination, NOx, SO2, particulates, mercury, lead, leftover coal ash, coal transport and mining itself are very energy intensive, etc.).

This "equivalency" stuff needs to be taken with a massive helping of salt. Burning coal is by far worse than burning gasoline in every respect. The only thing coal has going for it is it's pretty hard to oil a bird with coal.

Possibly. The equivalency done by the UCS was from the perspective of CO2. I am not aware of a complete analysis that takes all human health effects into account. Coal has mercury, but gas has small particle pollution near population which is also quite bad. I imagine a full lifecycle cost analysis would be quite complex and context specific.

[Mike K.]

Nice strawman Mike.

Yep some battery components have problematic sourcing just like any other resource we extract. As for what we do with old ones, they are reused in stationary storage projects (where there is huge demand) and can be recycled. They won’t be thrown out.

 

Yeah-huh.

 

Re-used in stationary storage projects. That's a good one! Almost as good as recycling: a magical concept that takes garbage and creates miracles.

[jonny]

Possibly. The equivalency done by the UCS was from the perspective of CO2. I am not aware of a complete analysis that takes all human health effects into account. Coal has mercury, but gas has small particle pollution near population which is also quite bad. I imagine a full lifecycle cost analysis would be quite complex and context specific.

 

It's actually not complex at all. Thermal coal is the absolute worse, there is absolutely no disputing that. Only if coal gasification is used does coal get even in the same neighbourhood as petroleum, which is nearly 100% combustible unlike coal which is very high in non-combustible material. 

[dasmo]

The “I'm better than you because I drive an eco-friendly EV” scam is playing out really well here.

Next up we should talk about how the battery components are sourced and what’s done with the old ones.

I don't need an EV. I drive a gas truck and I'm better than you guys!