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Electric and autonomous cars in Victoria and on Vancouver Island


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#4461 LJ

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 08:06 PM

Getting rid of the batteries is going to be the coming problem...

 

https://www.vice.com...scientists-warn


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#4462 LeoVictoria

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 09:50 PM

Wouldn't buying a used truck avoid that entire first paragraph?

 

The most eco-friendly thing you can do is buy used vehicles, maintain them well, and keep them out of the landfill.

 

It really isn't when driving that vehicle continually pollutes.

 

Sure, use up the cars we have, but buying an electric car and selling your old one to someone else that will use it up is definitely more eco-friendly than driving it forever while the other person buys a different gas car.  

 

As the switch to EVs accelerates over the next few years, we will likely see used gas vehicle prices drop and new sales drop more as people either buy used due to better prices or delay a purchase to go electric.  



#4463 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 05:47 AM

I’m not sure that’s accurate. What’s the difference between a little used truck in your driveway or one in the landfill. maybe you mean don’t scrap your truck - and buy a new one.

#4464 Mike K.

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 06:25 AM

We don’t use up the cars we have, though. We trash them long before their end-of-life. It’s incredibly wasteful and all to do with ego/trends/marketing/perception of value and increasingly over a desire to look eco friendly so you don’t end up in the crosshairs of the Oak Bay guy.

Is image more important to the eco movement? Because that’s what the Oak Bay guy is essentially saying. EVs still pollute, just in different ways and most are out of sight.

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#4465 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 06:39 AM

buying new cars creates jobs in the auto industry though.  so when your car salesman or auto assembly-line worker takes a jet vacation to mexico they can afford to buy the carbon offsets.



#4466 Mike K.

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 06:44 AM

Would there be staggeringly more jobs in the maintenance and service industry than the auto manufacturing industry?

But we need more cars as the population grows, so auto manufacturing isn’t going anywhere. And vehicles do eventually need to be replaced, but gosh not every 1-5 years like is so common today, during a crisis.

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#4467 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 06:53 AM

1-5 years let others into the ownership club.  used cars let families own 2 or 3 cars instead of 1.  those cars are not being junked they are being sold used.   now what is the average life - new to junkyard - for a canadian car?


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 30 November 2019 - 06:54 AM.


#4468 Mike K.

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 06:59 AM

But aren’t we trying to save the world here? We won’t do it by constantly buying news cars.

Funnily enough thanks to people buying larger vehicles like trucks and SUVs with big motors they stay on our roads longer. It’s the little sedans that are worthless after a few years, as in $25k brand new and barely above scrap value within a decade. Crisis, and all.

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#4469 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 07:06 AM

But aren’t we trying to save the world here? We won’t do it by constantly buying news cars.

 

with families with kids that live outside the city of victoria you need several cars.  it's not like saanich kids have free bus passes.  you need to drive them to school.  dad takes cindi to lochside elementary and mom takes curtis to spectrum.  mom also gets grant (her son from a former marriage) on weekends and has to pick him up at the ferry terminal on friday nights.  dad sees his two older kids (from his second marriage) mostly in the summer since they live in calgary now.  but he buys carbon offsets when he flies there.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 30 November 2019 - 07:08 AM.


#4470 Tom Braybrook

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 08:52 AM

with families with kids that live outside the city of victoria you need several cars.  it's not like saanich kids have free bus passes.  you need to drive them to school.  dad takes cindi to lochside elementary and mom takes curtis to spectrum.  mom also gets grant (her son from a former marriage) on weekends and has to pick him up at the ferry terminal on friday nights.  dad sees his two older kids (from his second marriage) mostly in the summer since they live in calgary now.  but he buys carbon offsets when he flies there.

...i guess that is why they call it a "blended" family...it puts your finances and time through a blender...


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#4471 LeoVictoria

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 10:17 AM

I’m not sure that’s accurate. What’s the difference between a little used truck in your driveway or one in the landfill. maybe you mean don’t scrap your truck - and buy a new one.


Who scraps their working truck? Reality is when you buy a new vehicle you sell the old one and someone else uses it up until eventually It get scrapped.

#4472 LeoVictoria

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 10:19 AM

We don’t use up the cars we have, though. We trash them long before their end-of-life. It’s incredibly wasteful and all to do with ego/trends/marketing/perception of value and increasingly over a desire to look eco friendly so you don’t end up in the crosshairs of the Oak Bay guy.

Is image more important to the eco movement? Because that’s what the Oak Bay guy is essentially saying. EVs still pollute, just in different ways and most are out of sight.


End of life is debatable. Often cars get scrapped because fixing them costs more than they are worth. Yes they could be fixed, but not economically.

EVs pollute because any product pollutes, but they pollute much much less.

#4473 Mike K.

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 03:44 PM

That’s the point.

We value them based not on their condition but on their date of production. How stupid is that?

My friend’s 2006 Tacoma was hit last week in a slow collision at a gas station. ICBC is writing it off. That’s patently absurd, but to fix the dent will cost more than the value of that vehicle.

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#4474 LeoVictoria

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 11:01 AM

That’s the point.

We value them based not on their condition but on their date of production. How stupid is that?

My friend’s 2006 Tacoma was hit last week in a slow collision at a gas station. ICBC is writing it off. That’s patently absurd, but to fix the dent will cost more than the value of that vehicle.

sounds like he needs to buy a cybertruck 

 

 

Seriously though what you are arguing for is properly pricing externalities.   If we charged the true costs of the recycling and environmental degradation from the waste and additional emissions from producing a new truck then the equation would be different.   
 

Carbon tax is an example of a way to price these externalities but of course doesn’t take into account the non-CO2 externalities 


Edited by LeoVictoria, 01 December 2019 - 11:08 AM.


#4475 Mike K.

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 04:45 PM

The carbon tax is a government cash cow now, thanks to the NDP decoupling it from neutrality.

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#4476 LeoVictoria

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 06:05 PM

The carbon tax is a government cash cow now, thanks to the NDP decoupling it from neutrality.

Yeah I figured your position would not be logically consistent



#4477 rjag

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 06:37 PM

Yeah I figured your position would not be logically consistent


What’s not logical about stating a fact?

The NDP went against the logic of how this tax was to be revenue neutral and are using it as a slush fund

#4478 Szeven

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 12:00 PM

Doug's review is out on the Taycan.

https://www.youtube....h?v=0vq6KEOIiMg



#4479 Mike K.

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:45 PM

He likes it!


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#4480 LeoVictoria

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 04:46 PM

What’s not logical about stating a fact?

The NDP went against the logic of how this tax was to be revenue neutral and are using it as a slush fund

 

Mike was complaining that we aren't fixing cars in many cases despite them being fixable.  I pointed out this is often due to the fact that negative externalities are not priced in and said the carbon tax is an example of pricing negative externalities.    Whether a carbon tax is revenue neutral or not has exactly nothing to do with that fact so I was just anticipating the contradiction that was coming.  

 

Of course instead of a market approach like the Carbon tax (or recycling fee / deposit system) we could also just force people to act counter to their economic self-interest and prevent them from buying a new vehicle rather than fixing their old one.    Something makes me think that won't get support either.


Edited by LeoVictoria, 03 December 2019 - 04:52 PM.


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