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Electric and autonomous cars in Victoria and on Vancouver Island


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#2021 tjv

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 07:09 PM

^it is the most ethical thing to do, but I think impossible to administer.  What happens to all those people who have already installed home charging stations?  what about people who get a free charge at the office or a shopping centre, etc?

 

With all the lost taxes the government is probably losing $25 in taxes per charge?



#2022 lanforod

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 07:22 PM

A tax per kWh added to all charging stations except home ones, and an ICBC fee for all electric and hybrid plug-ins seems like the simplest solution. Would need a regulated system for putting charging stations in place though, and that cat may be getting too far out of the bag?

That would also mean the end of 'free' chargers, as the tax would apply to whoever pays the electric bill for that meter - their responsibility to charge back to customers.



#2023 LJ

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 07:28 PM

And how do you imagine that they will determine when you fill up your EV?
 

 

Smart meters and sensors can tell when your refrigerator is running, you don't think every electric vehicle will have a sensor that the meter can read so that it can tell exactly how much energy you used to "fill up". Think again. Every public meter will have a slot for you to insert your credit card, pay as you go.


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#2024 LeoVictoria

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 08:28 PM

But hundreds of thousands of visitors to this province won’t pay at all?

There’ll be a fee levied at the “pump” just like it is now. That’s the only ethical and sensible way of doing it.

 

Currently all or almost all DC fast chargers are operated by BC Hydro, the Ministry of Transportation, or municipalities.   That revenue is already all going to the government.   However the vast majority of "pumping" for EVs is at home.   Sure they can easily add the tax to the fast chargers, but that is a couple percent of most people's driving 


Edited by LeoVictoria, 21 May 2018 - 08:29 PM.


#2025 LeoVictoria

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 08:31 PM

Smart meters and sensors can tell when your refrigerator is running, you don't think every electric vehicle will have a sensor that the meter can read so that it can tell exactly how much energy you used to "fill up". Think again. 

 

No I don't think.   It would be an insane system.   There are much easier ways to collect tax, vehicle registration fees being the obvious one.   Other jurisdictions are already doing this.


Edited by LeoVictoria, 21 May 2018 - 08:44 PM.


#2026 Mike K.

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 09:11 PM

We're still at the onset of this technology and industry. Five years from now things will be vastly different and in ten years the industry may be unrecognizable as far as the infrastructure is concerned. The only certainty is the government will not walk away from the cash cow the is the gas tax.

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#2027 RFS

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 09:11 PM

Some form of "smart" user fee road tolls is what I have read is likely to replace feul taxes. Similar to what they had for the Port Mann bridge.  Would bill directly to provincial residents and guests alike based on KMs.



#2028 jonny

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:59 AM

BC does not use any significant amount of coal powered electricity. The rest of the western world is transitioning away from coal quite quickly despite the best efforts of certain backwards leaders that imagine subsidizing a failing expensive industry is a smart move

As for the economic case for Leaf vs Fit, it only makes sense if you drive a lot if you buy both vehicles new. Used they will cost about the same which means very easy to make the business case.

 

30% of electricity is produced by coal in the United States. The percentage is 25% in Europe. Still pretty damn extensive.  

 

"Drive a lot" is an understatement for that cost variance. If the business case relies upon buying a used vehicle, Nissan is screwed!



#2029 rjag

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 09:11 AM

The EIA is so hilariously bad at projection growth in renewables you’d be better off just guessing a random number than listening to them

https://qz.com/11038...lar-generation/

 

Pretty selective to make a claim like that. Apparently the hockey stick graph was glaringly wrong, there are still glaciers in the Himalayas, the polar bears are doing just fine....seems like they get a lot of claims wrong as well and yet they also get some things right....I'm sure we could say the same about the EIA, they, like any other government agency or anyone else that attempts to forecast cant bring into account all the variables that they don't know about...

 

But if it floats your boat to reject this report then whatever....I'm sure these are very smart folks that worked on this report.

 

Even in their overview they make the following disclaimer

 

Projections in International Energy Outlook2017 (IEO2017) are not predictions of what will happen, but rather modeled projections of what may happen given certain assumptions under different scenarios.
•The IEO is developed using the World Energy Projection System Plus (WEPS+), an integrated model that aims to capture various interactions of economic changes and energy supply, demand, and prices across regional markets.
•Energy market projections are subject to much uncertainty, as the events that shape future developments in technology, demographic changes, economic trends, and resource availability that drive energy use cannot be foreseen with certainty.
•The IEO projections are published under to the Department of Energy Organization Act of 1977, which requires the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) to prepare reports on trends and projections for energy use and supply.

 

https://www.eia.gov/.../0484(2017).pdf

 

 

China shifts from the use of coal toward natural gas, nuclear power, and renewable energy between 2015 and 2040. This shift has a major effect on global energy-related CO2 emissions because of the size of China’s economy.
•The decline in Chinese coal-related CO2 emissions is partially offset by growth in India’s coal-related emissions.  However, coal-related emissions in India remain much lower than in China through 2040.
•World coal-related CO2 emissions grow at only 0.1% annually from 2015 to 2040, compared with the growth rate of 2.3%/year from 1990 to 2015

 

Its a template based on the data available and then extrapolated out. Its either right or its wrong, but a heck of a lot of economic policy is shaped by reports such as this, just like the trillions of $'s spent over the last decade based on the UN Climate change report....



#2030 LeoVictoria

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 09:55 AM

Strange as the Model S has been tested at 118 ft versus 152 for the Model 3...I wonder what is off?

 

Apparently a ABS calibration issue.  Being fixed. 



#2031 Mike K.

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 12:58 PM

Tesla has lost an entire year’s worth of market gains as its stock continues to slide from a high of nearly $400 in mid-2017 to $275 today. The stock has slid for a solid three months now.

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#2032 LeoVictoria

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 01:43 PM

Yep, Marko still time to jump in under $300

#2033 rjag

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 02:20 PM

Yep, Marko still time to jump in under $300

 

Haha yup its a 'buy' yup ok...you first....

 

https://stockchase.c...mpany/view/4017

 

 

He doesn't short stocks, but to answer this question he would short Tesla. Yes, they make a fine car, but this is the poster boy between a good company and a good stock. The estimated market cap of Tesla to produce pera car is $500,000 vs. GM's $4,000. Even if Tesla is outrageously successful, then can't grow into their stock price.


Edited by rjag, 22 May 2018 - 02:20 PM.


#2034 MarkoJ

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 04:30 PM

Yep, Marko still time to jump in under $300

 

It is odd, but I feel a lot more comfortable buying now than a couple of months ago when it hit $250!

 

This stock was $275 four years ago and I feel like they have accomplished a bit since then so in my view makes it a lot less risky. 

 

Surprised stock didn't take a bigger beating after this tweet over the weekend by Elon.

 

"With production, 1st you need achieve target rate & then smooth out flow to achieve target cost. Shipping min cost Model 3 right away wd cause Tesla to lose money & die. Need 3 to 6 months after 5k/wk to ship $35k Tesla & live."

 

He is admitting that their cash flow is not good :)


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#2035 LeoVictoria

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 05:10 PM

Haha yup its a 'buy' yup ok...you first....

https://stockchase.c...mpany/view/4017


I don’t buy individual stocks, but at $275 let’s say I bought and we’ll revisit this in 6 months.

Edited by LeoVictoria, 22 May 2018 - 05:11 PM.


#2036 LeoVictoria

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 05:50 PM

It is odd, but I feel a lot more comfortable buying now than a couple of months ago when it hit $250!

This stock was $275 four years ago and I feel like they have accomplished a bit since then so in my view makes it a lot less risky.

Surprised stock didn't take a bigger beating after this tweet over the weekend by Elon.

"With production, 1st you need achieve target rate & then smooth out flow to achieve target cost. Shipping min cost Model 3 right away wd cause Tesla to lose money & die. Need 3 to 6 months after 5k/wk to ship $35k Tesla & live."

He is admitting that their cash flow is not good :)


I expect the base $35k model will be not much more than break even for them. That’s at full production levels. While they are still at only half of the planned final production rate selling a break even car would leave them seriously short of cash. So they sell lots of optioned up vehicles to make up the difference.
Also battery costs falling so just delaying by 6 months or a year means the thing gets more profitable.

#2037 tjv

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 07:50 AM

I would be interested to hear from people who bought Tesla stock and get their feelings over the coming months

 

Don't worry, I am not asking because I want to invest, I hate the stock market



#2038 dasmo

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 09:19 PM

I’m long in Tesla. Been in for a while so am used to the ups and downs. I’ve already carved off a portion of my winnings so am fine holding what I have now in anticipation of them being a major battery supplier to all the “real car” companies electric cars. With the Gigafactory 2 cranking out PV panels and G1 pumping out battery packs plus other Gigafactories planned, well, the cars and trucks are just marketing showcases at that point. Tesla is really an energy play....

Edited by dasmo, 23 May 2018 - 09:19 PM.


#2039 LeoVictoria

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 05:57 AM

Well if Trump actually puts a 25% tariff on imported vehicles Tesla will really take off.

#2040 tjv

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:07 AM

^I think the vehicle tariff will end up being like the steel tariff, but hey time will tell.  I think the big winners will be Ford, GM and Chrysler and maybe a few other makers like Honda and Toyota with plants already in the US



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