834 replies to this topic

[Jackerbie]

I've forgotten what this thread was about...

 

Poorly researched statistics and speculation (by Riverside Marine Group, that is)

[Spy Black]

I have a difficult time believing that RMG couldn't (and didn't) see the writing on the wall from the get-go.

Any business plan prepared by a first year business student would have shown this current state of affairs to be the only state such a project could expect to wind up in.

Just go back and look at the beginning of this thread - lots of "well wishers" and "good luckers", but most saying it would never, and could never succeed - most likely locals who didn't even need a business plan prepared by a first year business student, rather just needing their common sense as a local.

 

I don't think the owners, or the press are reporting anything even close to the full story here.

Edited by Spy Black, 08 January 2020 - 05:57 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

there are stories that the elderly patriarch is a bit kooky. so he is ~ 75 now.

 

 

 

Campbell has seen the difference in the region for himself. Fifty years ago, he was sent to Canada from Australia when he was 22 by his father, and worked for a Vancouver tugboat company. He also spent time in Victoria and said he feels like this region is a second home for him, which is why he set up V2V.

 

“I just think it’s one of the most exciting places to be, it’s beautiful,” Campbell said. “I only invest where I am prepared to live. We’ve had many offers to go places like New Guinea, Africa and Asia, but this is a place I feel at home.”

 

He’s preparing to double-down on the investment in the region. Campbell said they have their eye on a second vessel for the route, and hope to eventually run two trips a day on it.

 

“We will prove it with this ship, but I think another ship is required so you can leave both ports early in the morning,” he said. “We know we are a little bit late in arriving for this summer, but we will be ready for next summer and want to be ready for the next one with two vessels.”

 

https://vancouversun...-first-launches

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 08 January 2020 - 06:11 PM.

[Spy Black]

there are stories that the elderly patriarch is a bit kooky.

That certainly has the potential to explain a great deal!

[Victoria Watcher]

if only they had gone with this design depicting natives hunting the whales in pre-contact times.

 

[Rob Randall]

...with canoes they stole from the Algonquins. 

[FogPub]

Trying to do what V2V was trying, with only one not-very-reliable ship, ain't ever gonna work.

 

Need at least two, preferably three ships, and a total of at least four daily sailings each way in the summer. (one early morning commuter, one mid-morning, one early evening commuter, one late-night*).  But that's a truly daunting start-up cost.

 

* - and that's one way V2V maybe could have capitalized, provided their ship(s) can run in the dark, by catering to late-night travellers trying to get back to the Island after an event or concert in Vancouver.  The seaplanes don't fly after dark; the last BC ferry is usually at 9 p.m. meaning if you're a walk-on you've got to leave downtown Van at or before 8 p.m.

[Victoria Watcher]

i think every experiment with late night ferries has been dismal. fewer people than you think want to get home at 2 or 3am. they’d rather just arrange a night over.

[Islander87]

As I have been reading through your threads, I felt compelled to share experiences from friends who have worked there over the 3 years.

· The CEO was extremely “kooky”, often telling story after story for meetings that lasted hours going nowhere. He’d get inspired, make a decision and then change his mind on a whim when he had “slept on it”, or completely forgotten what he decided the day before.
· In said meetings, he would often make misogynistic, derogatory, and every other kind of inappropriate comment you can thing of (one of the staff filed a human rights complaint, but there are many other that could have for a variety of reasons)
· He would berate staff in meetings for long periods, telling one that MBAs were useless, and another that he was spying on phones and emails to make sure they were working/selling – infront of a dozen other team members
· He was a bully, who told staff “we are the business of inconvenience” when telling them they needed to go to one city or another on a minute’s notice – even though it was a family business, he didn’t give a damn about those with families
· He demanded that staff wear uniforms to/from work, and if you didn’t they were seen as incompetent and berated for it, often using his subordinates to pick on them.
· He required his office assistants to wait on him hand and foot, preparing afternoon and morning tea with snacks and serving him like a servant. One story suggested that he declared he loved seeing a woman in heels after she served him with his tea.
· On one occasion, he commented that he “doesn’t buy in to all the politically correct BS” and went on another rant to consultants about how he didn’t want messy Asians on board making it uncomfortable for everyone else.
· He told another female crew member that because she has a womb, she shouldn’t have to carry around equipment. (in fact, he asked her publicly “do you want children? Mhmm well when I saw you carrying that *** all I could think about was your womb, you need to protect your womb and leave that to the men”)
· The company put a vast amount of their money into the boat, advertising, equipment, uniforms and wanted high quality everything, yet; Staff were paid the bare minimum, little vacation, benefits etc., when a new crew was being hired, they were going to give a 40% pay cut to their on-board servers, with little to no tips… $15 an hour doesn’t get anyone very far in Vancouver.
· Recruiters were told to discriminate against those of certain body types or sexual orientation (I am not kidding…it was said to multiple staff, and repeated by several)
· There was no respect or understanding for BC Labour and Employment Laws - The staff were required to work a substantial amount of overtime, regularly; there were constant battles with payroll to have the overtime pay corrected, only to be wiggled around with absurd interpretations of the law or bullied to drop it so that no one dared raise it. Several made complaints to the labour board after they left, for moneys owed or otherwise
· When the boat changed ports, staff were given 24 hours to decide whether or not they would move to another city, if they didn’t they’d be terminated immediately. All because the CEO had one of his inspired meetings and decided on the spot.
· New contracts were set for a 6 month probation so that they wouldn’t have to pay out at the end of the season and could just lay everyone off.
· They have had 5, yes 5 general managers in their 3 years. One son, one Aussie staff member, 2 locals and one nephew. One GM sued them in BC courts.
· They have had 3 separate sets of crews for each year, due to the move of ports twice they had to lay them all off.
· They have had 4 sales execs in the same period. One lasted 10 days.
· There were several accountants too – one lasted a few months, one lasted a day, another a few weeks. Could have been the numbers, could have been what they endured from the CEO
· The parent company now has a CEO, replacing the old guy and I’m told he’s a little more realistic, likely seeing that the venture was just a money pit


These are just a few of the reasons this company failed. I could go on, Victoria is a SMALL town, the marine and tourism industry even smaller… I am sure there are far more, and far worse stories out there if anyone chooses to share.

[aastra]

 

Victoria is a SMALL town...

 

Unless we're talking about visiting and/or resident billionaires and the mysteries surrounding their presence. Victoria is a gigantic megalopolis in that case.

[Victoria Watcher]

As I have been reading through your threads, I felt compelled to share experiences from friends who have worked there over the 3 years.

· The CEO was extremely “kooky”, often telling story after story for meetings that lasted hours going nowhere. He’d get inspired, make a decision and then change his mind on a whim when he had “slept on it”, or completely forgotten what he decided the day before.
· In said meetings, he would often make misogynistic, derogatory, and every other kind of inappropriate comment you can thing of (one of the staff filed a human rights complaint, but there are many other that could have for a variety of reasons)
· He would berate staff in meetings for long periods, telling one that MBAs were useless, and another that he was spying on phones and emails to make sure they were working/selling – infront of a dozen other team members
· He was a bully, who told staff “we are the business of inconvenience” when telling them they needed to go to one city or another on a minute’s notice – even though it was a family business, he didn’t give a damn about those with families
· He demanded that staff wear uniforms to/from work, and if you didn’t they were seen as incompetent and berated for it, often using his subordinates to pick on them.
· He required his office assistants to wait on him hand and foot, preparing afternoon and morning tea with snacks and serving him like a servant. One story suggested that he declared he loved seeing a woman in heels after she served him with his tea.
· On one occasion, he commented that he “doesn’t buy in to all the politically correct BS” and went on another rant to consultants about how he didn’t want messy Asians on board making it uncomfortable for everyone else.
· He told another female crew member that because she has a womb, she shouldn’t have to carry around equipment. (in fact, he asked her publicly “do you want children? Mhmm well when I saw you carrying that *** all I could think about was your womb, you need to protect your womb and leave that to the men”)
· The company put a vast amount of their money into the boat, advertising, equipment, uniforms and wanted high quality everything, yet; Staff were paid the bare minimum, little vacation, benefits etc., when a new crew was being hired, they were going to give a 40% pay cut to their on-board servers, with little to no tips… $15 an hour doesn’t get anyone very far in Vancouver.
· Recruiters were told to discriminate against those of certain body types or sexual orientation (I am not kidding…it was said to multiple staff, and repeated by several)
· There was no respect or understanding for BC Labour and Employment Laws - The staff were required to work a substantial amount of overtime, regularly; there were constant battles with payroll to have the overtime pay corrected, only to be wiggled around with absurd interpretations of the law or bullied to drop it so that no one dared raise it. Several made complaints to the labour board after they left, for moneys owed or otherwise
· When the boat changed ports, staff were given 24 hours to decide whether or not they would move to another city, if they didn’t they’d be terminated immediately. All because the CEO had one of his inspired meetings and decided on the spot.
· New contracts were set for a 6 month probation so that they wouldn’t have to pay out at the end of the season and could just lay everyone off.
· They have had 5, yes 5 general managers in their 3 years. One son, one Aussie staff member, 2 locals and one nephew. One GM sued them in BC courts.
· They have had 3 separate sets of crews for each year, due to the move of ports twice they had to lay them all off.
· They have had 4 sales execs in the same period. One lasted 10 days.
· There were several accountants too – one lasted a few months, one lasted a day, another a few weeks. Could have been the numbers, could have been what they endured from the CEO
· The parent company now has a CEO, replacing the old guy and I’m told he’s a little more realistic, likely seeing that the venture was just a money pit

 

maybe that jingle was the least of their problems.

[Islander87]

maybe that jingle was the least of their problems.

At least it was somewhat memorable

[Nparker]

At least it was somewhat memorable

But not $1.49 Day memorable.

https://soundcloud.c...ith-the-whistle

[Bernard]

I would love to know how much money was lost.  The fact it lasted three years given the management is simply an example of how people with money do not necessarily have any skills at running a business

[tanker]

So wait not only was the business plan flawed from the start but the management was incompetent too? How did this place run for so long?

[Bernard]

So wait not only was the business plan flawed from the start but the management was incompetent too? How did this place run for so long?

A lot of money

[Mike K.]

Paste a link to this thread the next time someone says Walmart is a terrible employer.

[Islander87]

I’m sure someone could easily throw a quick calculation together on exactly how much was lost, but certainly in the millions outside of the boat itself!

[Victoria Watcher]

it can’t have run with a staff of less than 20. so $4000/day in wages. at least as much in fuel. leases. a large amount of advertising.

$10k a day. that’s $2m per 200 days. is that a season more or less?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 09 January 2020 - 07:28 PM.

[Islander87]

it can’t have run with a staff of less than 20. so $4000/day in wages. at least as much in fuel. leases. a large amount of advertising.
$10k a day. that’s $2m per 200 days. is that a season more or less?

Keep in mind they were running the fuel whether they had passengers or not, so that’s a sunk cost. Plus lease rates at both Victoria and Vancouver wharfs, that can’t be cheap (I heard one was approx $1k a day). Plus costs of food (wastage). Plus cost of web hosting. Plus their offices right in the harbour etc etc. their operational expenditures were no doubt massive.

If they had 60 passengers per direction at $110 each, that’s only $13,200. Sure there’d maybe be a few at the higher premium but no way were they making more than $15k a day, and I’d say overall costs would be pretty close to that number.