5915 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

IGA?

[29er Radio]

So the consultation was merely a formality then. That’s the feeling many constituents have voiced when responding to the City’s online questionnaires which are skewed in such a way as to lead one down a path with one of several ideal outcomes that the City has decided it wants to move on.

It's all a little disappointing, to be honest.

its like being told as a kid you can have anything you want for dinner as long as it's liver

[nagel]

its like being told as a kid you can have anything you want for dinner as long as it's liver

Mike - the Cridge pharmacy.

 

No, it's like being consulted on the weekend about what you want for dinner during the week, and then when it's time to eat one of the dinners, having the choice where to put the stuff on the plate.  There was consultation on where the lanes were going to go, and it's really no secret (you can find it all on the city website so don't be surprised when we're talking about Harbour Road, Haultain, Richardson etc.), and now there's more consultation on what each of those routes look like, in detail.

[Mike K.]

But remember when work along Fort was suddenly extended to Moss or Linden, or the sudden switch from Cook to Vancouver? It took two years of wrangling to see that change and it only appeared to have happened when the City ran into implementation issues along Cook.

[nagel]

We've known it was going to Linden for a long time.

 

The flip flop on Cook is just like the Friday night you were gonna cook a casserole and y'all say F that it's time to order pizza because nobody wants to do the hard work.

[spanky123]

It is my understanding that Mayor Helps and staff consulted with the business owners, but since the work being undertaken did not require public consultation in order to move forward, they were able to move ahead despite the opinions being expressed. She confirmed this in a comment on one of our podcasts from a few weeks ago.

 

Well her statement is it odds with the various public comments from store owners on Fort St. Now the Mayor and staff may have consulted with people they knew were supportive of the bike lanes and ignored the rest which could make both statements true! 

Edited by spanky123, 04 June 2018 - 10:16 AM.

[Awaiting Juno]

To me, this stings a bit because there's truth in it.

I feel an obligation to contribute, not least because I can't keep my opinions to myself, lol.

At some point (after the new businesses are on firmer footing), I hope to find time to be a candidate for councillor and put some action (and some money, I expect) where my words have been. 

 

After so many years of watching politics in many forms, and listening to the likes of David Gergen and/or Peter Drucker, for example, I worry that we have a system that requires a huge ego.  The ego may be necessary to carry a politician forward through such a brutal process, but then we pay a price for the downsides that come from the same ego.  The things I would dread most about the process, for example, are exactly the same things that my most extroverted friend would really enjoy!

 

This.  If being counsellor wasn't at odds with the other hats that must be worn (small business co-owner, mother of smallish kids, wife), I'd throw my hat into the ring.  It might be different when the kids no longer will need a sitter in order to engage in an after work hours event, or when the business is a little more established and less demanding, but for now it'd be a no go.  For now the plate is full.  That said - I absolutely believe that the current council and how they do business needs to change.  I absolutely believe that there are far too many municipalities - and the lack of cohesion between them is resulting in tremendous waste and missed opportunities.    

 

I'm watching who throws their hats into the ring, and I'm hoping that a candidate who can take on Helps and get Victoria moving into a less dysfunctional direction declares their candidacy.    

[Mike K.]

We’ve known about Linden for a long time, for sure, but it was appended to the overall scheme long after the concept was aired.

I’m not saying it’s a bad thing that it was extended but it just shows how the project can suddenly shift and change, like Cook Street to Vancouver. For two years Cook Street was challenged by the community and willy nilly the City decides it should pursue Vancouver after all. Maybe the City should acknowledge the residents were right? Maybe the City ought to admit Cook was the lesser of two options after all, and the community was on to something?

[Stephen James]

It is my understanding that Mayor Helps and staff consulted with the business owners, but since the work being undertaken did not require public consultation in order to move forward, they were able to move ahead despite the opinions being expressed. She confirmed this in a comment on one of our podcasts from a few weeks ago.

I can confirm that Mayor Helps did not consult the businesses until after the decision had been made AND announced.  This is not fulfilling the duty to consult.  What she did, only when it became an issue in the news, was to undertake a, really minimal, survey of a few businesses, ​to get their input on how to implement.  Nothing shared about what they had to offer and no evidence is forthcoming that the city took any of the advice.  

 

She blew it and there's a pattern:

Mayor Helps believes she knows what's best for us and our opinions, if they're not aligned, are not welcome.

[Stephen James]

Mike - the Cridge pharmacy.

 

No, it's like being consulted on the weekend about what you want for dinner during the week, and then when it's time to eat one of the dinners, having the choice where to put the stuff on the plate.  There was consultation on where the lanes were going to go, and it's really no secret (you can find it all on the city website so don't be surprised when we're talking about Harbour Road, Haultain, Richardson etc.), and now there's more consultation on what each of those routes look like, in detail.

oh c'mon.  this isn't accurate or helping for goodness sake.

 

If the city had done adequate consulting, obviously we wouldn't have all the grief and wasted time, effort, money, planning to get the Cook St lanes (an insane idea) moved, finally and sensibly, to Vancouver St. 

 

The whole project is a disaster of community engagement, credibility and execution, starting with the grossly biased research report being touted, ad nauseam, from specifically a bike-oriented organization.  I mean, really, its embarrassing how stupid this group must think we are!  I like bikes and I'm ashamed of almost everything to do with them here, from a small group ramming a plan down the community's throat, to the arrogance of presenting openly biased research to the shameful inability to engage with people who are unhappy. 

[Stephen James]

We've known it was going to Linden for a long time.

 

The flip flop on Cook is just like the Friday night you were gonna cook a casserole and y'all say F that it's time to order pizza because nobody wants to do the hard work.

I hope you're not responsible for spending tax revenue if that's your best analogy for planning and execution.

[rjag]

 

She blew it and there's a pattern:

Mayor Helps believes she knows what's best for us and our opinions, if they're not aligned, are not welcome.

 

It took Frank Leonard at least 3 terms before he started acting like this and we all know what happened to him...just saying

[PPPdev]

This comment misses the point.

 

Mayor Helps has, arguably, ignored her duty to consult on this project and, whether she decided to go ahead anyway, or not, it was a serious error in judgment that she did not require consultation with the Fort Street businesses (or transit.)  I've attended so many events with her that I'm convinced she has real trouble with anyone, or any idea, that conflicts with hers.  

 

There may be no candidates that deserve to replace her, but this is the one issue I find most concerning in leadership.  When a leader can't overcome this tendency, the result we get is less-informed decision making and poorer communication with the community.

 

Apologies but I don't think you understand the point and it is reflected in your statement "Mayor Helps...". The Mayor is not a dictator, the Mayoral position has next to no special powers so you are speaking like The Mayor has the duty to consult and The Mayor's bike lanes are XYZ. What I am trying to convey is that Council as a whole votes on these matters, not just the Mayor. Council as a whole provides strategic direction to staff by passing a Strategic Plan that says: "Make cycling more safe to all residents". So then staff go around, do research on how to do this and put forward a report to Council saying "build separated bike lanes". Council as a whole then votes to approve or deny staff taking it to the next level of design, costing, and ultimately implementation. 

 

You may be right that in your experience, you've perceived her to have troubling listening to conflicting opinions but that doesn't matter. If the issue in conflict is ultimately approved or denied, it was done so by Council, not just the Mayor...

 

Make sense? 

[johnk]

I can confirm that Mayor Helps did not consult the businesses until after the decision had been made AND announced. This is not fulfilling the duty to consult. What she did, only when it became an issue in the news, was to undertake a, really minimal, survey of a few businesses, ​to get their input on how to implement. Nothing shared about what they had to offer and no evidence is forthcoming that the city took any of the advice.

She blew it and there's a pattern:
Mayor Helps believes she knows what's best for us and our opinions, if they're not ,
aligned, are not welcome.

Helps, Isitt & Co. are convinced cars are bad, bikes will save the planet and business owners are nothing more than self-centred moneygrubbers exploiting workers and ripping off customers.

Edited by johnk, 04 June 2018 - 02:35 PM.

[spanky123]

 

You may be right that in your experience, you've perceived her to have troubling listening to conflicting opinions but that doesn't matter. If the issue in conflict is ultimately approved or denied, it was done so by Council, not just the Mayor...

 

Make sense? 

 

I will grant you that Mayor Helps is not casting every vote herself and why many of the council members support her on some of her ideas is beyond me.

[Midnightly]

 

 

She blew it and there's a pattern:

Mayor Helps believes she knows what's best for us and our opinions, if they're not aligned, are not welcome.

 

 

isn't that pretty much the reason she shut down her facebook page? people not aligned with her belief she removed, then once she couldn't control that she just fully pulled it under the guise of "a toxic chamber"

[RFS]

isn't that pretty much the reason she shut down her facebook page? people not aligned with her belief she removed, then once she couldn't control that she just fully pulled it under the guise of "a toxic chamber"

Lmao. When you put it that way its actually pretty hilarious

[LJ]

Just got my tax notice from Langford. The message from the mayor was music to my ears. Keep Langford affordable and family friendly, improving and expanding our infrastructure, remain tough on crime and focused on community safety, hiring more police and firefighters, attract more national sport teams, etc. etc. 2.45% tax increase. Mayor for life, amalgamation - NFW.

[sebberry]

Nope, no gang or drug activity in Langford!

[sdwright.vic]

hiring more police and firefighters,

Mayor for life, amalgamation - NFW.

Uh....

1) isn't Langford a volunteer fire hall?

2) amalgamation doesn't mean Stu couldn't still be mayor