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Canadian Military and Defence


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#1 AllseeingEye

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 06:05 PM

Yeah I think I have the same general sentiment. In the medium term future we will see BC built ferris again since we are lucky enough to be on the Coast where the National Shipbuilding Stratagey is actually producing ships. We are about four / five years out from replacing four major ships.

The NSP is in trouble especially on the west coast IMO. As I said in the "Halifax" thread I have two family members working in Halifax Shipyards - one just laid off, for the third time in less than a year - who told me horror stories of what's happening there. One of our neighbors here is fairly high up in the CFB Esquimalt hierarchy and mentioned in passing the Ottawa Libs are already stonewalling on several key aspects of the NSP. Personally I think if its money they are looking to save and alienating as few voters as possible - the west coast non-military program is where we'll see those "deviations from the plan".....



#2 Mike K.

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 06:31 PM

Is it possible the Liberals want to kill the program in favour of non-Canadian shipyards getting the work?

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#3 LJ

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 07:09 PM

^I wouldn't think so. They just want to kill the military.

Apparently the F35's are off the table now as well. Going to pick up some super hornets and Boeing will throw in a couple of 767 air tankers gratis.

 

Probably a better choice at this time anyway, pick up some lightly used F35's in 10 years or so.


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#4 Mike K.

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 08:17 PM

Is the erosion of Canada's military part of some bigger, multi-national plan? I mean it's absolutely ludicrous that Canada has such a fledgling military ...and our politicians seem completely unwilling to restore it to even a fraction of its former self.

 

A reasonable individual would be inclined to think that there's far more to this collapsed deck of cards than meets the eye, but then when you veer off into that territory the narrative suddenly becomes one of conspiracy theories and boogeymen. But then, what option have we got? Are we to believe in the theory that country-wide political ineptitude not blinded by party lines or colour is really the reason why we have no navy supply ships, or ...?


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#5 LJ

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 07:48 PM

The military is seen by politicians as a money sucker, not an asset. They can make promises about day-care and health care and garner tons of votes. Promising to re-arm the military doesn't get votes. But when the shite hits the fan and there are no resources to call upon or the resources you need are thousands of miles from you it will be a different story. They just hope that day doesn't come on their watch.

If you look at the US and the layers and layers of law enforcement/military that can be called upon in an emergency then compare it to us, it is just staggering the difference. They have the army, navy, air force, marines, air national guard, national guard, coast guard, civil air defense, homeland security, FBI, highway patrol, state patrol, sheriffs dept., local police, plus a half a dozen others. Locally we have a couple of maybe seaworthy ships and personnel , a few local police officers, and if we are lucky some ham radio operators.

 

I don't think we need everything the US has, but a strong military presence locally would be nice.


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#6 AllseeingEye

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 08:30 PM

The military is seen by politicians as a money sucker, not an asset. They can make promises about day-care and health care and garner tons of votes. Promising to re-arm the military doesn't get votes. But when the shite hits the fan and there are no resources to call upon or the resources you need are thousands of miles from you it will be a different story. They just hope that day doesn't come on their watch.

If you look at the US and the layers and layers of law enforcement/military that can be called upon in an emergency then compare it to us, it is just staggering the difference. They have the army, navy, air force, marines, air national guard, national guard, coast guard, civil air defense, homeland security, FBI, highway patrol, state patrol, sheriffs dept., local police, plus a half a dozen others. Locally we have a couple of maybe seaworthy ships and personnel , a few local police officers, and if we are lucky some ham radio operators.

 

I don't think we need everything the US has, but a strong military presence locally would be nice.

Don't want to hijack the "Ferries" thread but for what its worth you can add to those organizations agencies like FEMA, various federal departments such as Energy, Transportation, the Treasury, the US National Response Team, the CIA and a dozen other intelligence services with varying functions, roles and responsibilities depending on the nature of the emergency.

 

By contrast Ottawa as you allude to can call on a tiny and woefully inadequate military apparatus and an even more poorly funded Coast Guard; in addition we have a bilingual (English/Spanish) call center with a 911 hot-line to Washington so we can beg for assistance in the event Something Really Big happens on this side of the 49th.....



#7 LJ

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 07:48 PM

And don't forget border patrol and department of public safety etc. etc.

And just for reference the USCG 13th district (Seattle) has more operational and better equipped boats than our entire navy.


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#8 Jason-L

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 07:55 PM

Well, a militarized country under semi-martial law does need a sizeable force to maintain control.


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#9 Bingo

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 09:27 PM

We should militarize the spirit ships with missiles and Sea Kings... just to get this thread back on topic.



#10 AllseeingEye

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 09:41 PM

We should militarize the spirit ships with missiles and Sea Kings... just to get this thread back on topic.

You're not far off: I bet more than a few folks would be surprised to know back in the Cold War - even today for all I know - BC Ferries played an unwitting military role/target, as US attack subs transiting to the Nanoose Naval Test Range would occasionally stalk and engage in mock attacks on BC Ferries vessels in the Georgia Strait to give their officers and crews experience in tracking and "attacking" enemy ships, made easier because BCF's naturally follow predictable routes at known times.



#11 Bingo

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 05:27 AM

You're not far off: I bet more than a few folks would be surprised to know back in the Cold War - even today for all I know - BC Ferries played an unwitting military role/target, as US attack subs transiting to the Nanoose Naval Test Range would occasionally stalk and engage in mock attacks on BC Ferries vessels in the Georgia Strait to give their officers and crews experience in tracking and "attacking" enemy ships, made easier because BCF's naturally follow predictable routes at known times.

 

Back in the 70's I left Gabriola Island on 23' sailboat with my young family heading north across the straits and accidentally wandered into the Nanoose Testing Range. 

We had paper charts and a course plotted, but had no radio or other navigational equipment.

Next thing we know there were high speed patrol boats converging on us with loud speaker instructions to get the heck outa there and here is your new compass heading.

I later found out that the subs often fire dummy torpedos that rise to the surface for recovery after their test run.

One of those could have easily ruined our boating holiday.


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#12 Mike K.

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 07:38 AM

Thank goodness signs were invented shortly thereafter.

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#13 jklymak

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 12:29 PM

 

We had paper charts and a course plotted, but had no radio or other navigational equipment.

 

Even in the 70s I'm pretty sure the charts clearly outline Nanoose.  


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#14 57WestHills

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 12:31 PM

The NSP is in trouble especially on the west coast IMO. As I said in the "Halifax" thread I have two family members working in Halifax Shipyards - one just laid off, for the third time in less than a year - who told me horror stories of what's happening there. One of our neighbors here is fairly high up in the CFB Esquimalt hierarchy and mentioned in passing the Ottawa Libs are already stonewalling on several key aspects of the NSP. Personally I think if its money they are looking to save and alienating as few voters as possible - the west coast non-military program is where we'll see those "deviations from the plan".....


I'm speaking very specifically to the Coast Guard in my comment. The NSP is a train wreck to be sure, but some ships are being produced right now on our side of the water.

#15 Bingo

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 01:25 PM

Even in the 70s I'm pretty sure the charts clearly outline Nanoose.  

 

Right!  The testing range was marked on the chart but once you are out there bouncing around (before the days of GPS) you can quickly get off course.


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#16 Bernard

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 10:27 AM

Right!  The testing range was marked on the chart but once you are out there bouncing around (before the days of GPS) you can quickly get off course.

The location is close to shore and two sightings of coastal landmarks and you would know exactly where you were with in a few tens of metres.   It is very basic coastal navigation and why marine charts show the locations of significant landmarks on them.


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#17 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 06:55 PM

http://www.timescolo...rtial-1.2323412

 

Former officer on HMCS Calgary found not guilty in court martial

 

 

Isn't this what got a ship sent back from RIMPAC, and lead to no-booze rules on ships?

 

A senior naval officer, Commander Joshua Yanchus, was found not guilty Monday of charges relating to his service as second in command of HMCS Calgary.

 

Following a court martial last week at CFB Esquimalt, Military Judge Col. Mario Dutil found the prosecution had failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Yanchus was guilty of disobeying an order, conduct that would prejudice good discipline and drunkeness.

 


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#18 spanky123

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 07:33 PM

It led to the no booze policy but a different ship was sent back from Rimpac.

 

Based on the evidence that was presented it seemed like this was a pretty much an open and shut case. 4 witnesses although the female visiting crew member did not testify.

 

My earlier comment about the Navy leaving out the alleged sexual assault when it originally disclosed the case, and then this verdict will do nothing to restore faith in the transparency of the Military.


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#19 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 06:42 PM

http://news.national...ades-dnd-report

 

Canadian navy will lose submarine fleet in next few years without billions in upgrades: DND report

 


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#20 AllseeingEye

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 07:12 PM

Whoa.....there is a surprise. Well not so much. Good old Canuckistan: "billions" would've got us altogether brand new submarines not so long ago and certainly back in 1998 when Jean Poutine's government bought these heaps. Instead we onboarded the trash that the Brits were getting rid of. I almost laughed out loud at the observation by the retired admiral in that link above who somewhat understated the situation when he observed that the current subs have had "teething problems".

 

Teething problems? Considering it took a decade++ merely to get them into a condition where they are (barely) able to perform the function they are designed to do - namely to submerge below water - and only 50% of them can do that with any surety or confidence, nearly 19 years after they were plucked off the near-scrap heap, describing their issues as 'teething problems' is like saying Titanic is "slightly underwater".

 

And when the poor old Victoria-class rust-buckets do sail into the proverbial sunset, given all the other demands on a very finite defence budget by the other CF services, I would bet my mortgage payment along with the subs will go all the accumulated experience and unique submariner skill sets, very possibly never to be seen again in the RCN unless a future government has a major major change of heart and philosophy. Doubtful.


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