1003 replies to this topic

[lanforod]

^But you could have real special eggs and sell them for $100 a dozen.

 

Yeah, I'm trying to show how to do it both legally and morally acceptable, without loophole crap like buying your eggs at Costco or selling just 25 dozen eggs for $100/dozen. See, even done perfectly legal, 50 standard red laying hens should produce enough income to get the discount. That doesn't seem appropriate for the reason there is a discount.

 

Seems to me, value for the farmland depends on what it is being used for. I have relatives who operated a berry farm. They should totally get the discount, as they farm 20 acres of berries and i'm sure their income is in the hundreds of thousands. That said, their income is huge, so why do they need a massive discount? Maybe a smaller discount is in order as well. 

Why should the 5 acre hobby farm guy who raises a 2 cows annually and sells them to cover his 2500 cost and get discount get a massive cut on his property taxes when he essentially doesn't use the land for real farming?

Does Frank Leonard read VV? 

Edited by lanforod, 12 March 2018 - 10:35 PM.

[spanky123]

I know there are audits performed to ensure you are actually growing and producing product.  I told a friend who owns a $2.5 million estate "farm" that pays $186 a year in property taxes that I would just run to costco and buy a pick up truck load worth of eggs and slowly sell them at my farm stand until I raise $2500.

 

Its really a giant joke if you ask me, sell a dozen eggs a day and save $5000+ a year in property taxes.  Why are we subsidizing someone who decides to get a few chickens and sell eggs.  Everyone in the CRD should have 2 chickens and a farm stand, and I'm not joking

 

Even easier than that. One of my coworkers buys $1,000 worth of 1yr old fruit trees each year from a local nursery and leaves them in their pots on his property. The next year he sells them as 2 yr old fruit trees on usedvic and uses the income to claim the deduction! Raising chickens actually requires effort! 

[VicHockeyFan]

B.C.’s speculation tax on vacant homes is being restricted to urban areas, with vacation homes in rural areas exempted, Finance Minister Carole James said Monday.

The Gulf Islands, the Juan de Fuca region in Premier John Horgan’s constituency, Parksville and Qualicum Beach are being exempted, James said. The municipalities of Nanaimo, Lantzville, Abbotsford, Chilliwack and Mission will still be included, as are Metro Vancouver, Greater Victoria and the cities of Kelowna and West Kelowna.

B.C. residents also get a break on the tax rate for vacant second homes in urban areas. The tax takes effect on 2018 property value and stays at 0.5 per cent for B.C. residents with second homes.

Albertans and other Canadians whose principal residence is outside B.C. will pay 0.5 per cent the first year, rising to one per cent in 2019 and beyond. Foreign owners and “satellite families” will be the only vacant home owners charged the full two per cent that James announced in February, effective 2019.

B.C. residents with second homes that are subject to the tax will be eligible for a non-refundable tax credit that applies immediately, the finance ministry says. It offsets up to $2,000 of the new tax, meaning they will pay no speculation tax on properties up to $400,000 in value.

 

https://www.saanichn...peculation-tax/

 

Honestly, this government is ridiculous.

[jonny]

The only people this tax will be good for will be the lawyers who have to navigate the legal maze that's being created.

[Mike K.]

And is this definitive, or can we expect Kelowna to fight this and force the government’s hand?

[jonny]

Good question. This is effectively a property tax, but I suspect the Province has the authority to write whatever laws they see fit in regards to taxation. Maybe there's something legally wrong with charging BCers one rate and other Canadians a higher rate? I dunno.

I can't help but feel suspicious that the NDP friendly Gulf Islands and Nanaimo area have been spared, but the Liberal heartland of Kelowna is being sacrificed.

At the end of the day, this is a really, really stupid tax. It's going to be so easy to abuse and challenge. How would the province prove you weren't in your secondary house for more than six months? Undercover surveillance?

[VicHockeyFan]

I suspect there will be lots of "renting" to people that might not actually live there.  Like family members and friends.

[jonny]

Oh, for sure. I live in Calgary but my wife lives in our home in Kelowna.

That's why this tax is so dumb. It will be so easy to game and hard to enforce. Are they going to hire a bunch of auditors to hide in the bushes with binoculars to see if Mrs. Smith was really there for 6 months plus a day?

[Mike K.]

Or they can introduce a system of reporting your neighbour.

[VicHockeyFan]

Casey Edge, executive director of the Victoria Residential Builders Association, said even with the changes outlined Monday, the tax is wrong-headed and has led some developers in Greater Victoria to put the brakes on new housing developments.

 

“This is a haphazard way to address affordability,” Edge said, adding that in the CRD, the lack of a regional transportation plan is one of the biggest barriers to affordability.

 

http://www.timescolo...reas-1.23213719

 

With no context, I'm still trying to figure that last statement out.  If we had a regional transportation plan, homes would cost less?  Or workers would earn more?  Or they'd pay less for transportation, so they'd have extra money for housing?  Or they'd get to work faster, then could work more hours, earn more pay, then afford housing better...

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 26 March 2018 - 07:31 PM.

[Mike K.]

Yeah, that seems a little out of left field. The comment likely refers to a lack of rail/LRT from the West Shore.

[tjv]

Or they can introduce a system of reporting your neighbour.

Good luck with that.  The first thing I would do it challenge it in the Supreme Court with several days of examinations of discovery on the neighbor and then they can show up at court as a witness, etc, etc.  At a minimum that neighbor would have to take 5 days off work UNPAID.

 

Oh Mr. Neighbor, looks like the province lost.  Here is your lawsuit for my time and legal expenses with a certificate of pending litigation on title on your property.  I hope it was worth it

[Mike K.]

Nah, that’s how bylaw infractions are handled now and you haven’t a clue who reported your infraction, when it was reported and whether someone will keep their eye on you.

[jonny]

If a neighbour complains about you breaking a bylaw, a bylaw officer still has to come out, assess the situation, and issue a ticket? Who is going to do that for allegedly vacant homes? 

[Mike K.]

Right, so one can imagine bylaw may be involved here as well. Nobody but a peace officer and hydro or terasen can enter onto your property. And the mailman, but it’s up to you where you collect your mail.

I can see a complaint leading to several things:
- a hydro use report is pulled
- a gas use report is pulled
- bylaw conducts a house visit and leaves a letter
- if there is no response within X period, bylaw makes a second visit, leaving second letter
- if there is no response, the tax is levied and the onus is on you to prove you don’t deserve it

Good times.

[VicHockeyFan]

I heard Sidney will be debating this.

 

What's the word from the other local politicians...?  Helps gets her empty homes tax, but she gets no money from it.  And what about Vancouver, now with double the tax (local and provincial)?

 

http://www.news1130....peculation-tax/

Landlords who rent their properties for more than six months out of the year for at least 30 days at a time will not be subject to the tax.

 

The tax would be in addition to Vancouver’s current one per cent empty homes tax.

 

The NDP budget predicted the program would bring in $200 million and James says she is “comfortable with the numbers we have in our budget” despite the reduction in the tax on non-BC residents.

 

James did not dismiss the idea that areas could be added or removed based on their housing markets in the future, but says the government will be monitoring the tax.

 

 

 

.

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 27 March 2018 - 09:37 AM.

[rjag]

Right, so one can imagine bylaw may be involved here as well. Nobody but a peace officer and hydro or terasen can enter onto your property. And the mailman, but it’s up to you where you collect your mail.

I can see a complaint leading to several things:
- a hydro use report is pulled
- a gas use report is pulled
- bylaw conducts a house visit and leaves a letter
- if there is no response within X period, bylaw makes a second visit, leaving second letter
- if there is no response, the tax is levied and the onus is on you to prove you don’t deserve it

Good times.

There is what is called legal trespass and illegal trespass, ie the mailman is allowed onto your property to the extent of the mailbox. No further. Same as the hydro or gas meter reader. Bylaw cannot enter your property past your front door without reasonable cause, a telephone complaint of an illegal suite is not reasonable cause.
A police man may not enter past your front door without reasonable cause either, though their reasons are not as stringent but they still require cause.

If the utility is public the govt may be able to pull the record but again it can’t be the sole reason to enter to investigate. It needs secondary confirmation.

Apart from the CRA our Charter does not allow for you to prove your innocence. On top of that does a municipality have the same right if access that the Feds would have?

[Mike K.]

For sure, nobody would be entering the home without you knowing, but bylaw can cross over onto your private property.

 

So you're saying that local and provincial governments cannot slap that tax on you without you agreeing that yes, the home is a secondary residence not rented at least six months of the year?

[jonny]

If they are going to pull hydro, gas or water records, keep the heat and some lights on. Leave a toilet running. 

 

This is like the "illegal" secondary suite thing in that it'll be very hard to enforce. 

[Mike K.]

It's actually not hard to enforce. If someone complains about an illegal suite, the municipality sends out bylaw officers and municipal inspectors to assess the state of the home. They don't mess around with such things and you can't obstruct them from conducting their inspection.