1003 replies to this topic

[jonny]

Not hard to enforce yet there are thousands of illegal secondary suites in Greater Victoria alone? That's odd...

[Mike K.]

Right. And the City quietly encourages such suites, but if a complaint is lodged the City has a duty to respond.

 

Essentially if you've got an illegal secondary suite you're at the mercy of your neighbours, your tenants and contractors working on your home. And yes, contractors (even cable guys) who note something they feel could be a safety threat have been known to approach municipalities with their concern. Even something as simple as your tenant purchasing tenant insurance could yield a rudimentary inspection of the space, and a safety concern brought forth to the municipality.

[LeoVictoria]

This whole discussion is around whether there might be a way to evade this tax by lying about the status of your secondary property.  Maybe there is, maybe there isn't.   Regardless, that is not a game you want to start with the government.   

[Mike K.]

This whole discussion is around whether there might be a way to evade this tax by lying about the status of your secondary property. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. Regardless, that is not a game you want to start with the government.

Interesting way of interpreting it.

Because I could have sworn this discussion has been about trying to determine just how the government plans to levy a tax that keeps changing and the details of which appear to be a work in progress.

[sdwright.vic]

Yeah sorry many comments along this conversation has been about avoidance and loop hole finding.

[Mike K.]

It’s called dialogue.

If you equate this with intent to subvert the government then that says more about your frame of mind than the nature of this discussion.

[jonny]

Yeah sorry many comments along this conversation has been about avoidance and loop hole finding.

 

The point is if you make a tax this idiotic and unenforceable, there are going to be challenges. Tax avoidance is a very real issue, and we're discussing that. 

[tjv]

It's actually not hard to enforce. If someone complains about an illegal suite, the municipality sends out bylaw officers and municipal inspectors to assess the state of the home. They don't mess around with such things and you can't obstruct them from conducting their inspection.

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe any bylaw inspector can enter your home without a search warrant.  Police must have probably cause meaning they must see something like a trail of blood visible when you open the front door.  No one can come in just because they got a tip.

 

As someone else said, we wouldn't have the outbreak of illegal suites 20 or 30 years ago if it was enforced.  How do they expect to enforce this tax when they can't even enforce illegal suites and that can be enforced municipally via bylaw and zoning, provincially via building code, and federally via income tax fraud.  How much do you think the CRA loses out each year on unreported rental income?

 

And even if someone came to inspect you are still allowed to request a freedom of information about a neighbor if that is the case who gave the tip.  Now if that person was anonymous, that is a different story of course

[rjag]

They cant enter your home. They can make a request to enter to inspect but they need a court order if you refuse. Lots of times they wont go that far, they'll put a notice on your title to say you have done something without permits and it stays there until you prove otherwise. Makes it very hard to sell your house and also impossible to apply to get a permit for that extension without clearing the issue up first.

 

We had a situation on our old house on Bushby St in the early 90's. We were legally lifting the house to put a legal 2 bed garden suite in. The neighbours didn't like it but no variances were needed. So they resorted to other tactics such as animal control claiming my Doberman was running loose and being aggressive etc...problem was the times they claim this was happening the dog was under my desk at work in Keating and surrounded by witnesses.

 

Then one night we get a knock on the door and it was 2 guys in street clothes flashing some type of badge saying they were from the cable company. They said I was reported that there was an adult unrelated to me and my wife living in the house with us (wifes best friend) and under CRTC rule 2345 it clearly states that you can only have a cable license for up to 2 related adults and I had to buy a 2nd license for our room mate. They then demanded to enter the property to search it and confirm how many TV's we had plugged in and how many adults not related to us actually lived there.

 

Needless to say I told them to take a flying f^ck and to come back with a court order and the cops as what they were doing was harassment. 

 

Never heard from them again. 

 

There is also the simple defense of Selective Prosecution. The Municipality cant target one neighbor while ignoring another who may also be in violation of a bylaw simply because its complaint driven. This happened to us with OB Bylaw about our garden and how there were bushes on the public 6' by the sidewalk. He claimed it was based on a complaint. I went around a few blocks in our area and recorded 15 properties with similar gardens and told them that if they were to prosecute me, then they had to prosecute all. 

 

I produced this section of the Charter

 

 

15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

 

Needless to say the issue went away

[LeoVictoria]

Interesting way of interpreting it.

Because I could have sworn this discussion has been about trying to determine just how the government plans to levy a tax that keeps changing and the details of which appear to be a work in progress.

The same way they levy any other tax. Through self reporting backed up by random and targeted audits.

The point is that the tax is due. Just like any other tax there are a million ways to evade it but that’s not a smart way to go.

Edited by LeoVictoria, 27 March 2018 - 05:41 PM.

[LeoVictoria]

For example, not declaring rental income. Sure you can do it and many do, but it is easy for the CRA to catch you if they want to and then they can really make your life miserable. A terrible strategy to pursue.

[jonny]

This one will be way easier to evade than not declaring rental income, but whatever.

[Mike K.]

Yeah, rjag put it far more eloquently than I ever could. You can fight the muni so far but the system has ways of forcing compliance.

[LJ]

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe any bylaw inspector can enter your home without a search warrant.  Police must have probably cause meaning they must see something like a trail of blood visible when you open the front door.  No one can come in just because they got a tip.

 

As someone else said, we wouldn't have the outbreak of illegal suites 20 or 30 years ago if it was enforced.  How do they expect to enforce this tax when they can't even enforce illegal suites and that can be enforced municipally via bylaw and zoning, provincially via building code, and federally via income tax fraud.  How much do you think the CRA loses out each year on unreported rental income?

 

And even if someone came to inspect you are still allowed to request a freedom of information about a neighbor if that is the case who gave the tip.  Now if that person was anonymous, that is a different story of course

My muni will not allow anonymous reporting. If you wish to make a complaint your name and address are required. 

[LJ]

Right, so one can imagine bylaw may be involved here as well. Nobody but a peace officer and hydro or terasen can enter onto your property. And the mailman, but it’s up to you where you collect your mail.

I can see a complaint leading to several things:
- a hydro use report is pulled
- a gas use report is pulled
- bylaw conducts a house visit and leaves a letter
- if there is no response within X period, bylaw makes a second visit, leaving second letter
- if there is no response, the tax is levied and the onus is on you to prove you don’t deserve it

Good times.

Most people when they go away for extended periods have someone looking after the house for them. Lights are turned on and off, toilets are flushed, heat is on but set low. Any notices left would be attended to by the person looking after the place.

[rjag]

My muni will not allow anonymous reporting. If you wish to make a complaint your name and address are required. 

 That may be so, but the person the complaint is made against will not be told who is complaining

[Citified.ca]

How much will you have to pay? 

At 0.5%, costs to Canadian property owners will amount to $2,500 in 2018 for a home assessed at $500,000. Come 2019, non-BC residents will pay $5,000 in speculation taxes. The new tax will be levied in addition to property taxes.

 

Are tax credits available?

Yes. British Columbians will qualify for a $2,000 non-refundable income tax credit applied to the first $400,000 of only one vacation or investment property. This means that a home assessed at $500,000 will be yield a tax hit of $500 in lieu of $2,500.

 

Foreign buyers who report income in British Columbia will also be eligible for the tax credit.

 

British Columbia's southern Gulf Islands, among several other regions, have been excluded from speculation tax zones introduced by the provincial government earlier this year.

 

BC's updated real-estate taxes: what you need to know …and forget

https://victoria.cit...now-and-forget/

 

 

[spanky123]

How long until they start to tax people with secondary suites who are not renting them out?

[Matt R.]

Gosh those gulf islands sure are nice.

Lower taxes, insanely cheap ferries, no sewage treatment boondoggle, no hundred million dollar bridges ...

Matt.

[Jackerbie]

How long until they start to tax people with secondary suites who are not renting them out?

 

That's an issue that has come up countless times at Richmond Council sub-committee meetings I have attended. Councillors keep asking if we can tax, monitor, or mandate that secondary suites be rented out, staff keep saying it's a terrible idea and extremely onerous to enforce.