[Fairfield - Victoria] 451 Chester | 6 townhomes | Approved
#1
Posted 21 January 2007 - 11:42 AM
I just need to make one comment about this statement:
Victoria Coun. Pam Madoff called the offer for a rental building “tantalizing” but she questioned whether the developer had worked out the economics of that type of project.
Great idea -- higher density might make more economic sense to build rental housing! So why all the opposition to previous high density rental proposals? :roll:
Developer’s apartment offer tantalizing, but council says no
Eight variances were sought for proposed 11-unit building on site suitable for a duplex
BY CAROLYN HEIMAN Times Colonist staff
There has been little to no construction of rental buildings in Victoria in recent years, exacerbating a growing housing crisis in the region.
So when a developer offered to turn a proposed condominium into a rental apartment building for 10 years, it was like waving freshly baked bread under the nose of a starving man.
[...]
Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.
#2
Posted 21 January 2007 - 11:45 AM
-City of Victoria website, 2009
#3
Posted 21 January 2007 - 11:51 AM
#4
Posted 21 January 2007 - 11:53 AM
Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.
#5
Posted 21 January 2007 - 12:03 PM
-City of Victoria website, 2009
#6
Posted 21 January 2007 - 12:09 PM
Yeah that quote from Madoff pisses me off. I mean is she saying that it is not profitable to build rental housing anymore at all so we shouldn't try. What is her point? How did she become an expert in this over the people putting the project forward.
#7
Posted 21 January 2007 - 12:36 PM
#8
Posted 21 January 2007 - 01:09 PM
This is how cities used to develop until such liberating ideas as height limits, 50 foot setbacks from the sidewalk, and other zoning rules which give bureaucrats something to do so that they don't get lonely. This is the Paris model - buildings right on the street packed in side by side. Pamela should love this.
A building like the Normandy would look great squeezed into an inner city residential lot like 451 Chester.
If we kept building Normandys everywhere we'd start looking like Paris with all it's lowrise density.
#9
Posted 21 January 2007 - 01:31 PM
City, make up your mind. Towers set back on podiums, or total-lot euro-style buildings. If you want density you need to pick one or both of these. You can't decry thin towers for being too tall, while at the same time demanding massive useless street-destroying setbacks.
Buildings in victoria must be set back and only take up a bit of the lot, but they can't be tall. They say we need more density, but will refuse and fight any buildings denser than 3:1 downtown, or any more dense than a single family house anywhere else.
Do... do they want us to build underground? I'm sure if an underground development was to somehow go forward at 100x the cost per square meter as normal construction, they'd demand public housing and balk at any developers who told them it was financialy imposible.
#10
Posted 21 January 2007 - 01:36 PM
#11
Posted 21 January 2007 - 01:50 PM
...she questioned whether the developer had worked out the economics of that type of project.
So we're questioning the developers of the Hudson because we're concerned they've worked out the economics of their project too well, and now we're questioning this little rental proposal because we're concerned they haven't worked out the economics of their project quite well enough.
As Derf said, many dozens of new rental units have been proposed in recent years. It's a myth that they haven't. However, the rental units in question were proposed for the wrong part of town (James Bay) and were -- at least in the eyes of critics -- the wrong type of rental units (aimed at rich renters, rather than poor renters).
Nothing is ever the right project for Victoria, it seems.
#12
Posted 21 January 2007 - 03:20 PM
How condecending! Where does she get off asking that kind of question? It's not like the guy doesn't have a successful track record in this town. It reminds me of the stupid things Oak Bay councillors asked of Kevin Walker regarding the Oak Bay Beach Hotel proposal.Victoria Coun. Pam Madoff called the offer for a rental building “tantalizing” but she questioned whether the developer had worked out the economics of that type of project.
#13
Posted 21 January 2007 - 04:29 PM
There's a big difference between the returns on rental and condo properties and it's hard to make it up simply by swapping out appliances and exchanging the granite countertops with laminate.
-City of Victoria website, 2009
#14
Posted 21 January 2007 - 09:35 PM
Is that what happened? Was the original proposal for condos?, for 11 units?
But then the Q is: is that so wildly different from all the six-plexes that have been going up all over the place in Fairfield, courtesy of lifting & renovating formerly 2500sq.ft. SFH into condos into (added basement, er, "garden suites") 3500sq.ft. sixplexes (at between $350K-450K each)? Six on one lot -- how much different would 11 have been, in a purpose-built structure? (I'm just asking, 'cause I wasn't at the meetings, and really don't know...)
#15
Posted 22 January 2007 - 07:26 AM
#16
Posted 11 February 2007 - 03:17 PM
I take it this project is still chugging forward. In the [url=http://www.victoria.ca/contentmanager/minutes/min070125_cnc.pdf:31e43]minutes[/url:31e43] [PDF] from the January 25th 2007 council meeting, Mr Miller addressed council:No, I have to defend Pam and the other skeptical councillors by saying that from what I've heard I don't think the developer himself knows the economics--that it was an attempt at trying to rescue a dying proposal by dramatically upping the ante.
Mike Miller – Abstract Developments Inc. – re: 451 Chester Avenue
He appreciates the opportunity to speak to Council and the points raised at the Committee of the Whole and from Fairfield Community Association. The financial viability for such a project was raised by Committee. He has since researched and investigated the financial aspects and it is very much doable. There have been no new private initiated rental market suites completed in October 2005. His proposal mirrors the Capital Region Housing Corporation proposal of providing units at a low end market rent. He would be providing eleven two bedroom units under market; rent that would not exceed 30% of the renter’s income. Proposal does not exceed density which is allowed in the zone. He has received support from three of the adjacent neighbours. This proposal would be a benefit to the community with quality rental homes and a long-term commitment.
Councillor Hughes said that she hopes that this will go forward as there is a large number of people who have a need for something like this. We should pursue this and ask staff to meet with the applicant and bring back a report on the feasibility of this project.
#17
Posted 12 February 2007 - 07:55 AM
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891
#18
Posted 12 February 2007 - 10:13 AM
Abstract is certainly getting awards from the industry....
Industry UpdatesLarge Volume Home Builder of the Year Abstract Developments ... #1 – 3690 Carey Road, Victoria, BC Phone: 250.383-5044 Fax: 250.383.9423 email: ...
http://www.chbavicto...ws ... r 15.htm - 45k - Cached - Similar pages
James Bay ActionHELD AT: JAMES BAY NEW HORIZONS - 234 MENZIES ST. ... Mike Miller, Abstract Developments - reported on the Development Variance application. ...
http://www.jbnea.org/July2006.html - 22k - Cached - Similar pages
2006 CARE Awards Silver FinalistsBC Housing Rose Manor, Knappett Projects Inc. James Bay Lodge. The Interior Design Group ... Abstract Developments Inc. Terra Rose, Coastal Construction ...
http://www.careaward.../newhomes5.html - 16k - Cached - Similar pages
#19
Posted 12 February 2007 - 10:07 PM
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891
#20
Posted 12 February 2007 - 11:16 PM
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