3834 replies to this topic

[DustMagnet]

VV is certainly a Safe Hair-Splitting Site.

 

I know you all know the different between OD'ing in an alley and OD'ing under medical supervision.

[Love the rock]

Ok, I will henceforth only refer to this concept as death reduction, since death is only one facet of harm.

As unfortunate as it is I think you just cut through to the bare bones truth . What we’re doing is reducing death . Just my opinion. If you feel differently I respect that .

[Love the rock]

See I’m not trying to split hairs at all .I feel that calling it a harm reduction site is BS the government uses to give the appearance of doing something. The same as if I was morbidly obese and stopped eating one piece of chocolate a day doesn’t mean I’m on a diet .You are free to call it as you see it .

[Nparker]

...I know you all know the different between OD'ing in an alley and OD'ing under medical supervision.

One is immediate death, the other is slow death.

[LJ]

See I’m not trying to split hairs at all .I feel that calling it a harm reduction site is BS the government uses to give the appearance of doing something. The same as if I was morbidly obese and stopped eating one piece of chocolate a day doesn’t mean I’m on a diet .You are free to call it as you see it .

It's sorta like "irregular migrants" 

[Greg]

One is immediate death, the other is slow death.

 

FWIW, we treat lots of diseases with the objective of replacing immediate death with slow death.

 

/In fact, the overall objective of health care is slow death, given that life is a terminal condition.

[Victoria Watcher]

Reid told On The Island host Gregor Craigie that expanded community out-patient services would also be helpful, "as opposed to everybody coming to one spot."

He said he would prefer to see small service hubs in multiple communities for people in need of substance use support, which could reduce the pressure on some sites, including along Pandora Avenue. The street is also home to Our Place Society, which provides services for the city's homeless.

Reid called the scene on the street's 900 block "tragic to see"






https://www.cbc.ca/n...ealth-1.5279039

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 September 2019 - 10:06 AM.

[DustMagnet]

As unfortunate as it is I think you just cut through to the bare bones truth . What we’re doing is reducing death . Just my opinion. If you feel differently I respect that .

 

I don't feel differently actually.  I'm just responding to the (IMO) mistaken ideas that safe injection sites either a) promote drug use or b) are primarily designed to get people off drugs, because people say, "Safe injection sites aren't solving the drug problem!" as if that's the point.

[Nparker]

...we treat lots of diseases with the objective of replacing immediate death with slow death....

True, but addiction could be treated with the goal of greatly deferring death by emphasising getting well over "harm reduction". It seems as though the current philosophy places quantity of life over quality of life and IMHO that's not admirable for any illness or disease.

[Greg]

True, but addiction could be treated with the goal of greatly deferring death by emphasising getting well over "harm reduction". It seems as though the current philosophy places quantity of life over quality of life and IMHO that's not admirable for any illness or disease.

 

I agree we should emphasize helping people break addictions. I also think we should help prevent addicts from dying from an overdose. And I don't think we should limit the latter option to those addicts whom we deem in compliance with the former. We provide insulin to all type-2 diabetics, even those who are resistant to beneficial life-style changes. We treat lung cancer, even in people who haven't/can't quit smoking. 

 

This should not be set up as two mutually exclusive avenues. We should encourage addicts to get treatment. And we should try to prevent addicts from overdosing -- even those not currently willing to seek treatment. I don't think the City of Victoria does everything they could be doing on the first count, but that isn't the fault of safe-injection sites.

[Victoria Watcher]

the government spends a considerable amount of money trying to decrease smoking rates.  and they also heavily tax cigarettes.  can't we see a similar plan for opioids?

 

the cbc article talks about "days even weeks" delay in treatment.  that does not sound too extreme.  why don't we have every single addict (or as close as we can get to that) on a replacement therapy free of charge?

 

i submit that for some addicts the "high" off opioids is favourable to replacements.  we need more stick i'm afraid.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 September 2019 - 01:07 PM.

[Love the rock]

Most people need to hit their personal rock bottom to start to change .Any addiction any negative behaviour.
If we constantly artificially pump up their personal rock bottoms what changes .We already have seen commercials about drug use among average citizens what message is that sending our youth. It’s must be ok because your teachers and bus drivers are doing it .Stop normalizing addiction .

[Nparker]

...I don't think the City of Victoria does everything they could be doing on the first count, but that isn't the fault of safe-injection sites.

The CoV should have no responsibility in the matter. If it is truly a health issue, then the responsibility lies with the Province. 

[Victoria Watcher]

Most people need to hit their personal rock bottom to start to change .Any addiction any negative behaviour.
If we constantly artificially pump up their personal rock bottoms what changes .

 

free rent/shelter food clothing and bus passes plus monthly cash is not really rock bottom.  we have a system that keeps people well elevated from that.

[Victoria Watcher]

We already have seen commercials about drug use among average citizens what message is that sending our youth. It’s must be ok because your teachers and bus drivers are doing it .Stop normalizing addiction .

 

to be fair i don't think the ads went into listing the work professions of any of the (surprisingly attractive physically) models used.  if they had there would have been push-back from various employee groups.

 

i'd take in either if they needed help.  nobody camping outside our place nightly looks like these two.

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 September 2019 - 01:54 PM.

[DustMagnet]

^ Isn't the point of that campaign to say that drug users aren't just the rough-sleeping types, so one shouldn't subscribe to the "let 'em die, good riddance" solution?

Edited by DustMagnet, 13 September 2019 - 02:26 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

^ Isn't the point of that campaign to say that drug users aren't just the rough-sleeping types, so one shouldn't subscribe to the "let 'em die, good riddance" solution?

 

to be honest i'm unclear what the ads seek.  more public donations to homeless/addiction charities?  acceptance of more government spending on same?

[Love the rock]

to be fair i don't think the ads went into listing the work professions of any of the (surprisingly attractive physically) models used. if they had there would have been push-back from various employee groups.

i'd take in either if they needed help. nobody camping outside our place nightly looks like these two.

You might be right .Im trying to find the ads that ran on TV and can’t . Didn’t they have someone looking like a kids hockey coach ,a nun ,and someone waving from a bus .
Maybe I was mistaken. This sends a totally different message to a six year old than a 60 year old . A friends grade school child got very upset and told her dad
she saw someone drinking and driving when they were driving back from school.
This happened a few times .The finally time it was reported that a classmates parent had been seen behind the wheel drinking in front of the school. After further investigation in fact the child was right.
She had seen people drinking and driving , bottled water , and timmies coffee . She was 6 .

Edited by Love the rock, 13 September 2019 - 02:59 PM.

[Nparker]

Meanwhile, this is the tactic being taken with cigarettes and tobacco.

Edited by Nparker, 13 September 2019 - 03:16 PM.

[LJ]

I agree we should emphasize helping people break addictions. I also think we should help prevent addicts from dying from an overdose. And I don't think we should limit the latter option to those addicts whom we deem in compliance with the former. We provide insulin to all type-2 diabetics, even those who are resistant to beneficial life-style changes. We treat lung cancer, even in people who haven't/can't quit smoking. 

 

This should not be set up as two mutually exclusive avenues. We should encourage addicts to get treatment. And we should try to prevent addicts from overdosing -- even those not currently willing to seek treatment. I don't think the City of Victoria does everything they could be doing on the first count, but that isn't the fault of safe-injection sites.

Diabetics and smokers aren't usually causing mayhem and damage to the downtown core, they also don't need to be artificially revived if they have one too many cigarettes one day.