3830 replies to this topic

[On the Level]

What if they could flip that around in some way to require that in order to access the other supports you must either be clean or enrol in some sort of rehab program? (I know the current regime would never go for this, for fear it would hurt or stigmatize the drug gangs).

 

I know everyone like a nice simple answer of having some sort of treatment, but it became apparent decades ago that addiction is a life long and messy struggle.  Treatment only works for those that are in a very narrow window of wanting to get clean, and even then most relapse. 

 

It is also costly.  I am not saying we shouldn't add treatment options, but we already spend more than we bring in through taxes.  So what part of healthcare do we cut and from who, to put in these services?   

[kitty surprise]

I know everyone like a nice simple answer of having some sort of treatment, but it became apparent decades ago that addiction is a life long and messy struggle.  Treatment only works for those that are in a very narrow window of wanting to get clean, and even then most relapse. 

 

It is also costly.  I am not saying we shouldn't add treatment options, but we already spend more than we bring in through taxes.  So what part of healthcare do we cut and from who, to put in these services?   

 

But if, according to one addict, "The addicted mind is a selfish mind, no doubt, but also an utterly helpless one.", then is it not possible, at least for a subset of the addicted, that in the throes of addiction, selfishness to get the next fix by any means possible outweighs all other rational action? In other words, addicts will lie to researchers and doctors and advocates and any other 'expert' so they will be given more leeway, more forgiveness, more ability to be seen as someone who is the victim of a disease versus someone with a "selfish mind" who is just trying to avoid taking accountability of their own actions/choices - and admitting they have all the tools they need within themselves to get off drugs, but they simply don't want to. Sorry but my patience, like my tax dollars, are running thin!  

[Nparker]

It will always be easier for an addict to give into their addiction than to admit they need help. Taxpayer money should not be used to enable addiction, but to do what is needed to make addicts well.

[LJ]

So we just allow people to be lifelong addicts staying high on taxpayer-funded drugs.

Bring back the opium dens.

[On the Level]

But if, according to one addict, "The addicted mind is a selfish mind, no doubt, but also an utterly helpless one.", then is it not possible, at least for a subset of the addicted, that in the throes of addiction, selfishness to get the next fix by any means possible outweighs all other rational action? In other words, addicts will lie to researchers and doctors and advocates and any other 'expert' so they will be given more leeway, more forgiveness, more ability to be seen as someone who is the victim of a disease versus someone with a "selfish mind" who is just trying to avoid taking accountability of their own actions/choices - and admitting they have all the tools they need within themselves to get off drugs, but they simply don't want to. Sorry but my patience, like my tax dollars, are running thin!  

 

I think we are on the same page....as you didn't read the research paper and made this post instead.  

[kitty surprise]

I think we are on the same page....as you didn't read the research paper and made this post instead.  

 

Definitely not an expert on the topic, but having lived with family dealing with addiction and mental illness my whole life, I've seen firsthand the sneaky tricks and con-artistry that goes on, just to get you off their back so they can get back to their next fix.

 

Sorry if cynical but if addicts are willing to lie to family, to 'tell them whatever they want to hear', I know they will do the same to researchers and advocates. An addicted family member once told me they flat out fabricated a pity story and lied to a social worker just to get more free services. 

 

"Yes yes it's a disease, yes yes I have no control over it, yes yes if I don't get my next fix in 20 minutes I might lose control of my faculties and smash in a window at a random condo building..."  

 

So when I hear my hard earned tax dollars are going to be spent keeping addicted people addicted, boy do I feel some high-up industry expert/researcher/advocate got conned.

[Victoria Watcher]

as a poster has said here time and time again.  recovery beds sit empty.

 

 

 

Helps said the Community Wellness Alliance of ­government, business and social-service officials set the “rather arbitrary” goal based on available resources, ­including 60 affordable-housing units opening next month, 24 available treatment beds at Our Place’s Therapeutic Recovery ­Community, and 110 rent subsidies provided by B.C. Housing and Island Health.

 

https://www.timescol...less-1.24226402

[On the Level]

 

In a report released Monday (Oct. 19), titled ‘The intersection of mental health and policing in White Rock,’ Staff Sgt. Kale Pauls shares statistics and recommendations for change, including one suggesting that the City of White Rock start billing Fraser Health for mental-health apprehensions

 

https://www.vicnews....l-health-calls/

[exc911ence]

I wonder if Oregon's 'legalization' of meth, heroin, and other hard drugs will have a stream of our homeless heading south after the borders open, or a flood of more nasty drugs flowing north into our area?

 

https://apnews.com/a...bfd4afdd7a7a33e

 

SALEM, Ore. (AP) — In a first in the nation, Oregon has rejected charging drug users with criminal offenses, with voters passing a ballot measure that decriminalizes possession of heroin, methamphetamine, LSD, oxycodone and other hard drugs.

[Nparker]

I wonder if Oregon's 'legalization' of meth, heroin, and other hard drugs will have a stream of our homeless heading south after the borders open...

One can hope!

[Jackerbie]

Looks like they've only decriminalized it, not legalized it. Difference being that it's not a criminal offence to posses, but if you're caught you have the option of a fine or detox. The addictions treatment system is funded by cannabis tax income.

[lanforod]

Anyone know how that differs from Portugal?  See, we need to do something different here. We've tried various approaches, they aren't working. Hardline enforcement doesn't work long term. Letting it happen like now, doesn't work long term. Gotta change our approach. Maybe Oregon's approach will work. I'm not sure about how a fine helps though.

[Nparker]

If this change in Oregon attracts our addicts there, then it's a success.

[lanforod]

There is the small matter of an international border in the way. Anyways, that kind of comment doesn't help.

[Nparker]

...that kind of comment doesn't help.

Neither will a decriminalized supply of hard drugs help with addiction.

[lanforod]

Neither will a decriminalized supply of hard drugs help with addiction.

 

Except it just might, if combined with the right treatments/subsequent actions. E.g. Portugal. 

Its clear that what we've been doing in the 80s/90s didn't work. What we've been doing the past 10 years has just made it worse. Time to try something different.

 

https://transformdru...cord-straight/ 

[TwilightZoneVictoria]

Heard that many homeless but especially the hard to house ones and ones banned from shelters are on the streets because they burnt too many bridges with family and friends, but compassionate social workers, and the rest of the industry will enable them when they do wrong. All they need to do is mention a traumatic past and it's a free pass. 

 

Where is the boundary? 

 

Not to mention lots of people with traumatic pasts, PTSD, mental illnesses are just living their lives as part of society, not causing destruction to the community around them.

 

Definitely not an expert on the topic, but having lived with family dealing with addiction and mental illness my whole life, I've seen firsthand the sneaky tricks and con-artistry that goes on, just to get you off their back so they can get back to their next fix.

 

Sorry if cynical but if addicts are willing to lie to family, to 'tell them whatever they want to hear', I know they will do the same to researchers and advocates. An addicted family member once told me they flat out fabricated a pity story and lied to a social worker just to get more free services. 

 

"Yes yes it's a disease, yes yes I have no control over it, yes yes if I don't get my next fix in 20 minutes I might lose control of my faculties and smash in a window at a random condo building..."  

 

So when I hear my hard earned tax dollars are going to be spent keeping addicted people addicted, boy do I feel some high-up industry expert/researcher/advocate got conned.

[Nparker]

Heard that many homeless but especially the hard to house ones and ones banned from shelters are on the streets because they burnt too many bridges with family and friends...

Not to mention all the burnt hotel rooms.

[LJ]

Anyone know how that differs from Portugal?  See, we need to do something different here. We've tried various approaches, they aren't working. Hardline enforcement doesn't work long term. Letting it happen like now, doesn't work long term. Gotta change our approach. Maybe Oregon's approach will work. I'm not sure about how a fine helps though.

In Portugal it is go to jail or go to rehab. Fining them won't help.

[Jackerbie]

^ Portugal is fine, community service, or rehab. No jail time for possession. Dealing is still a criminal offense.