51 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

^Developers make a pretty profit. That is their own.

 

Developers also face significant financial risk.  Not every project is a winner.  Some break even.  On some they lose money (theirs, or more likely, other investors' money).

 

Remember too, developers are only a conduit for risk-adverse owners.  40 owners want condos in a specific new building, but the developer is the person that takes all the risk to first propose it, then build it for these 40 people.  Even when a developer has 100% pre-sales (say Janion, for example), he still faces risk along the way.

[LeoVictoria]

Cost to run our 2100sqft Gordon Head box for 1 year:  $1300 hydro, $820 gas, $820 water/sewer/garbage, $3200 tax, $1000 insurance.    

 

Total:  $595/month

Edited by LeoVictoria, 31 October 2016 - 05:55 PM.

[tedward]

Developers also face significant financial risk.  Not every project is a winner.  Some break even.  On some they lose money (theirs, or more likely, other investors' money).

 

Really? How many projects have lost money in our area in the last decade?

[LeoVictoria]

Really? How many projects have lost money in our area in the last decade?

Here's one: http://victoria.citi...lared-bankrupt/

 

Bear mountain?

[VicHockeyFan]

Really? How many projects have lost money in our area in the last decade?

 

Do you think developers have only entered their professions in the last 10 years?

 

The predecessor to the Union (Bambu?) went bankrupt, when they had priced the pre-sales too low to cover construction costs.  Oak Bay Beach Hotel went belly up.

 

Bear Mountain had issues.

 

Capital City Centre.

 

The folks renovating the Dominion Rocket ran out of money part way through.

[dasmo]

Capital City Centre wasn't a development so doesn't count....

[VicHockeyFan]

Capital City Centre wasn't a development so doesn't count....

 

What was it?  Somebody bought the land.  Built a display centre.  Paid for all kinds of advertising (I got paid 100% for my work for them).  And ordered and paid for at least part of that steel and concrete foundation construction.

[dasmo]

What was it? Somebody bought the land. Built a display centre. Paid for all kinds of advertising (I got paid 100% for my work for them). And ordered and paid for at least part of that steel and concrete foundation construction.

It was a grift....

[VicHockeyFan]

It was a grift....

 

It's not like those guys had not built stuff all over the country.  They did have a history of performance.  Maybe it all fell apart around the time of CCC.

[dasmo]

It's not like those guys had not built stuff all over the country. They did have a history of performance. Maybe it all fell apart around the time of CCC.

Right, They had set up a REIT, offered 14% return to vulnerable retired folks and set up almost 100 corporations to process the money. They certainly did have a history of lowercase performance. The coat of arms was an amazing piece of set design....

[VicHockeyFan]

^ I agree.

[Mike K.]

Not building doesn't mean major losses weren't incurred. In the case of CCC they spent untold millions on that excavation and concrete work.

The Hudson restoration ran into serious issues.

As did the Radius development where Hudson Walk is rising now, where they spent millions on excavation and blasting only to run out of money.

And who remembers that 23-storey project that dug a pit on Wale Road then got cancelled?

Swallows Landing had some trouble, I *think* and I think we've all seen that one project on Atkins that was nearly finished then abandoned.

Colwood has that massive project overlooking the lagoon that was killed off after one phase. New owners will move on it some day.

Dockside Green ran into trouble, too, but they're in an enviable position.

And a plethora of projects went through the planning motions only to get ditched before shovels hit the ground with sizeable financial losses.

[spanky123]

Compared to many other cities in North America and around the world, housing in Victoria is very affordable. The problem is that compared to incomes locally it is not. The dominant industries here are Government (which pays ok but is not growing), Tourism (which does not), and Tech (which should pay very well but most companies are small and can't afford to pay top salaries). The demographic trend over the past decade has also shifted to an older population, many of whom are retirees and on fixed incomes that yield about 2% max a year after fees and taxes.

 

As I have said before, you can take housing stock out of the market, subsidize it and then make it available to lower income folks, but then all you are doing is forcing the price of remaining stock up which then moves more people to having affordability issues.

[VicHockeyFan]

As I have said before, you can take housing stock out of the market, subsidize it and then make it available to lower income folks, but then all you are doing is forcing the price of remaining stock up which then moves more people to having affordability issues.

 

Yup, it's just a big shuffle.  Tax you more, to let your neighbour pay slightly less each month in rent.  

[aastra]

 

And who remembers that 23-storey project that dug a pit on Wale Road then got cancelled?

 

Silkwind. Looked pretty sharp.

 

[dasmo]

Sorry but a 23 story tower in that location is at the very least poor planning.... This at Uptown, yes.... 

 

Silkwind. Looked pretty sharp.

 

[North Shore]

 older population, many of whom are retirees and on fixed incomes that yield about 2% max a year after fees and taxes.

 

Perhaps it's just me, but I'm beginning to have more and more problems with the whole 'seniors on a fixed income' whinge....aren't we all on fixed incomes? It's not like I can go to my boss tomorrow and demand a raise, or I'll go elsewhere.  I suppose, if I were some sort of an independent professional I could boost my hourly rate, but then I run the risk of losing customers to my competition.

Not only that, but today's seniors are going to inherit a sh!tload of cash from their parents...:

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...tance-1.3617891

[VicHockeyFan]

Perhaps it's just me, but I'm beginning to have more and more problems with the whole 'seniors on a fixed income' whinge....aren't we all on fixed incomes? It's not like I can go to my boss tomorrow and demand a raise, or I'll go elsewhere.  I suppose, if I were some sort of an independent professional I could boost my hourly rate, but then I run the risk of losing customers to my competition.

Not only that, but today's seniors are going to inherit a sh!tload of cash from their parents...:

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...tance-1.3617891

 

Seniors have never been more wealthy than they are today, in North America.

[UrbanRail]

Yup, it's just a big shuffle.  Tax you more, to let your neighbour pay slightly less each month in rent.  

I am not suggesting others pay more so that I can pay less rent. Like many I pay 2/3 of my pay check to rent (my wife and I split the rent). Is not easy getting ahead when you work in retail part time and go to college. I am not a freeloader and understand that homeowners have expenses too. At times I get the impression that renters like myself get a lot of negative attention.

[VicHockeyFan]

I am not suggesting others pay more so that I can pay less rent. Like many I pay 2/3 of my pay check to rent (my wife and I split the rent). Is not easy getting ahead when you work in retail part time and go to college. I am not a freeloader and understand that homeowners have expenses too. At times I get the impression that renters like myself get a lot of negative attention.

 

ANY form of affordable housing that ignores or defies the market forces means that somebody is paying part of your rent somehow.