[Marine] BC Ferries
#5341
Posted 08 March 2022 - 08:12 AM
Not to mention the simple fact that crews must live (or board) from the home port. And you can’t crew a canadian vessel with canadians if it’s hitting multiple US ports.
Google the Jones act, it’s a really burdensome piece of legislation. I agree it would be great to keep that route running at all costs, but it’s essentially impossible given the regulatory nightmares at play.
- JohnsonStBridge likes this
#5342
Posted 08 March 2022 - 08:15 AM
It also doesn’t have to stop anywhere but in Anacortes.
- Victoria Watcher likes this
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#5343
Posted 08 March 2022 - 08:16 AM
My concern is if this hiatus continues too long they’ll cut the route completely, which would be a huge blow to the region.
Not so sure.
- Redd42 likes this
#5344
Posted 08 March 2022 - 08:18 AM
Why can’t we run it out of Swartz Bay?
It also doesn’t have to stop anywhere but in Anacortes.
Not so sure you can suddenly make BCF US compliant. You also have border issues. The compound must be secure.
- JohnsonStBridge likes this
#5345
Posted 08 March 2022 - 08:18 AM
#5346
Posted 08 March 2022 - 08:22 AM
It's the PSVA that applies here, not the Jones act. We are talking about passengers, not cargo.
- max.bravo likes this
#5347
Posted 08 March 2022 - 08:24 AM
International connections are important in the grand scheme of things.Not so sure.
Our airport is one of the most isolated in the western world for its size and relevance to a population of 500,000. Now we’re going to lose ferry connections to our nearest US ports? Not good. It’s the same level of not good as destroying a rail link into downtown.
Once these things are gone, we rarely if ever get them back.
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#5348
Posted 08 March 2022 - 08:25 AM
#5349
Posted 08 March 2022 - 08:29 AM
I guess I just mean if you tally up the passengers. BCF and Coho probably bring up 20x more Americans daily in the summer.International connections are important in the grand scheme of things.
Our airport is one of the most isolated in the western world for its size and relevance to a population of 500,000. Now we’re going to lose ferry connections to our nearest US ports? Not good. It’s the same level of not good as destroying a rail link into downtown.
Once these things are gone, we rarely if ever get them back.
Edited by Victoria Watcher, 08 March 2022 - 08:29 AM.
#5350
Posted 08 March 2022 - 08:42 AM
...My concern is if this hiatus continues too long they’ll cut the route completely, which would be a huge blow to the region.
And don't look for any help from Canadian governments who seem to have a distinct hatred for marine passenger vessels.
- Barrrister likes this
#5351
Posted 08 March 2022 - 10:08 AM
Bcf also doesn’t have the berth space at swartz bay. Or the crew to take it on.
Or customs & immigration facilities.
#5352
Posted 08 March 2022 - 10:24 AM
Without the ferries how are the tourists supposed to go shopping on Pandora?
#5353
Posted 08 March 2022 - 11:52 AM
Would the Jones Act extend to BCF if it didn’t stop anywhere but in Anacortes?
The much bigger regulatory consideration for BC Ferries to operate an Anacortes route is Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) certification as it would be a international crossing. While BC Ferries is subject to Transport Canada safety requirements there are a number of SOLAS requirements that are deemed not be be necessary for vessels primarily operating in the protected Georgia Straight. As a result, our vessels are not built to the same international requirements that would be needed just to cross the Haro Straight and operate in similar protected waters (albeit American).
To my knowledge the only BC Ferries vessel meeting SOLAS requirements is the MV Northern Adventure as it was previously operated in Trinidad and Tobago before being purchased by BC Ferries. So even if BC Ferries had the crew, they would be unable to pick up say one of the Salish class vessels to run to Anacortes. Washington State Ferries is in a similar bind as their only SOLAS vessel is the MV Chelan that is normally used on the Sidney route. As the Chelan is nearing the end of its service, they recently estimated the cost to SOLAS retrofit a vessel at between $20 and $40 million USD.
Long term, I do believe the route is not in jeopardy. Washington State is able to make the route viable because SOLAS capital costs are incremental to servicing the San Juan islands. If they cut Sidney service for good, they would be worse off financially as they still need a vessel to service Friday Harbor and they would be forgoing the Sidney route revenue without eliminating a sizeable chunk of their operating costs. The issue currently is that they have much greater priorities in attempting to restore service across all of their routes and actually makes the service provided by BC Ferries look quiet enviable.
- Mike K., Nparker, lanforod and 2 others like this
#5354
Posted 17 March 2022 - 03:38 AM
https://www.bbc.com/...ss-60779001.amp
P&O Ferries has paused its services "in preparation for a company announcement" later on Thursday.
The ferry operator said it was not going into liquidation but all ferries had been instructed to stay in port.
Union RMT urged the firm to protect jobs amid speculation that hundreds of crewmembers could "be sacked and replaced with foreign labour".
ITV News understands that all P&O Ferries staff have been made redundant with immediate effect.
The company is set to use an agency to keep their ferries running and current staff will be able to apply to the agency for work.
The move comes ahead of an expected announcement today, Thursday 17 March.
https://www.itv.com/...or-announcement
Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 March 2022 - 04:03 AM.
#5355
Posted 17 March 2022 - 09:14 PM
The much bigger regulatory consideration for BC Ferries to operate an Anacortes route is Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) certification as it would be a international crossing. While BC Ferries is subject to Transport Canada safety requirements there are a number of SOLAS requirements that are deemed not be be necessary for vessels primarily operating in the protected Georgia Straight. As a result, our vessels are not built to the same international requirements that would be needed just to cross the Haro Straight and operate in similar protected waters (albeit American).
Are you *sure* about that, JSB? IIRC, from my days working at the BCFC, one of the reasons for the large crew is because of the Georgia Strait Salish Sea crossing. IIRC, it is deemed by Transport Canada to be international waters, and therefore needs a higher crew-to-passenger ratio than inshore waters, such as Swartz-Fulford. I assume (I know...) that because of that, the vessels would be built to international standards..
#5356
Posted 18 March 2022 - 08:34 AM
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#5357
Posted 18 March 2022 - 08:47 AM
Are you *sure* about that, JSB? IIRC, from my days working at the BCFC, one of the reasons for the large crew is because of the
Georgia StraitSalish Sea crossing. IIRC, it is deemed by Transport Canada to be international waters, and therefore needs a higher crew-to-passenger ratio than inshore waters, such as Swartz-Fulford. I assume (I know...) that because of that, the vessels would be built to international standards..
Crewing requirements aren’t because of international waters. TC makes license distinctions based on several things Including gross tonnage, passenger capacity, and voyage class- which is determined by distance from shore. The difference you cite is between sheltered waters and near coastal licenses.
Some definitions here https://tc.canada.ca.../important-note
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#5358
Posted 18 March 2022 - 09:17 AM
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#5359
Posted 18 March 2022 - 01:00 PM
I’m pretty sure the ratio of crew to passengers on the Coho is lower than on BCF Routes 1 & 2.
Definitely. Canadian crewing requirements are sometimes near double what a similar size US boat can run. Ostensibly for safety reasons.
- Mike K. likes this
#5360
Posted 18 March 2022 - 01:29 PM
Are you *sure* about that, JSB? IIRC, from my days working at the BCFC, one of the reasons for the large crew is because of the
Georgia StraitSalish Sea crossing. IIRC, it is deemed by Transport Canada to be international waters, and therefore needs a higher crew-to-passenger ratio than inshore waters, such as Swartz-Fulford. I assume (I know...) that because of that, the vessels would be built to international standards..
Yes I am Assuming that you are referring to Route 1 (Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay), it is not a international voyage. Transport Canada defines an international voyage as a between a port in one country and a port in another country. So while the route cut south of the 49th parallel, it remains subject to domestic Transport Canada regulation and its brief passage through USA waters does not influence crewing requirements which are based on some of the factors max bravo outlined.
Transport Canada does look to international conventions when setting safety regulations but will amend where appropriate given the area of operation and other risk factors. So while many aspects will meet (or even exceed) SOLAS, there would need to be modifications made to make a vessel compliant with international SOLAS requirements.
And for the record, crew to passenger ratios are not higher on Route 1 than Route 4 (Swartz Bay to Fulford Harbour). The Coastal class operates on Route 1 with the same crew to passenger ratio as the Skeena Queen does on Route 4. However, if you throw the Spirit class on Route 1 with the same passenger capacity, you would need 7 more crew than a Coastal class because the Spirit ferries require more crew to operate their evacuation 'chute' system than the Coastal ferries require to operate their evacuation 'slide' system in event of a emergency.
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