262 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

History has been made in Saanich. Good for Harper to have stepped in to stop this thing.

[spanky123]

Killed by 5-4 vote yesterday.

 

New councillor Harper sides with kill.

 

With Derman still in, this would have gone the other way.

 

Either way the bylaw would have been changed, the only question was whether the bylaw should be revised or killed and replaced. The fear with the later is that it could be years before a new bylaw is finally approved and in the mean time a lot of sensitive property could be redeveloped or destroyed.

[rjag]

Either way the bylaw would have been changed, the only question was whether the bylaw should be revised or killed and replaced. The fear with the later is that it could be years before a new bylaw is finally approved and in the mean time a lot of sensitive property could be redeveloped or destroyed.

 

What do other municipalities have in place? From my limited knowledge this was killed because it was so inflexible and infringed on private property rights. no room for appeal or variance to build a patio or a deck, or put a pond in, landscaping was verbotten etc. 

 

Some laws have good intentions, but fail to obtain support because they need to have flexibility. Derman was inflexible and zealotlike in his actions, some will miss him, others wont.

[VicHockeyFan]

Either way the bylaw would have been changed, the only question was whether the bylaw should be revised or killed and replaced. The fear with the later is that it could be years before a new bylaw is finally approved and in the mean time a lot of sensitive property could be redeveloped or destroyed.

 

Or not.  Most people do not like wrecking their own property.

 

It's always prudent to spend a little more time on a good plan.

[VicHockeyFan]

Some people also think you can change land away from just native species and still respect it.  Butchart Gardens would be pretty lousy if they had to let the native weeds and grasses stay, and if they could not plant more exotic species.

[spanky123]

What do other municipalities have in place? From my limited knowledge this was killed because it was so inflexible and infringed on private property rights. no room for appeal or variance to build a patio or a deck, or put a pond in, landscaping was verbotten etc. 

 

Some laws have good intentions, but fail to obtain support because they need to have flexibility. Derman was inflexible and zealotlike in his actions, some will miss him, others wont.

 

It was killed because a few developers wanted it killed.

 

There were certainly examples of overreach by staff, but the vast majority of people had no difficulty building a patio or deck or landscaping their properties.

[rjag]

It was killed because a few developers wanted it killed.

 

There were certainly examples of overreach by staff, but the vast majority of people had no difficulty building a patio or deck or landscaping their properties.

 

Friends of ours are/were in the EDPA, out of curiousity they called Saanich a while back to ask about extending their patio in their backyard (10 mile point with ocean views) and install a built-in BBQ centre, property is over 1/3 acre in size, they were told that no they would not be allowed to do this and in fact should remove their existing patio and a small rockery as it was in violation.....Its that stupid inflexibity that killed this, not developers

[Benn]

Pretty disappointing. Keep in mind, the objective of the meeting yesterday was to discuss the third party report that council commissioned to review the bylaw and identify areas of improvement. A report that in now way suggested that it should be rescinded. That didn't happen at all. Total waste of money.

 

Whichever side of the fence you are on wrt EDPA, you can't for an instance suggest that was good governance. Spend two+ years consulting with the public, commission multiple professional reports to help you understand the feedback and critical factors, and then make a decision not supported by anything to appease a tiny (albeit very well funded and organized) group of citizens.

[Mike K.]

The public voted quite clearly on the issue by supporting Harper. She was anti-EDPA and she won by a wide berth.

The problem with these initiatives is the feedback collected is from a tiny sample comprised of people with an interest in the topic. Officialdom thinks it has the public’s support until the plan hits the public’s consciousness and then you get what we have here.

[Cassidy]

Private property owners don't like being told what they can or can't do with their property to begin with.

The building code already addresses construction, and Saanich charges through the nose for assorted licenses and inspections during that construction.

 

Saanich property owners see their garden, lawn, pond, bushes, etc as their business, and only their business - nobody else's, especially not the business of some desk bound Saanich functionary.

 

I'd say what happened last night was municipal politicians recognizing that the EDPA was essentially despised by the majority of Saanich property owners affected by it, and that any politician seen as supporting it would never get re-elected.

Likely the proof in the pudding was the fact that our newest councillor actually got elected with a major component of her platform as getting rid of the EDPA.

 

I wouldn't be too terribly surprised to see the "Yes" votes suffer for it in the next election, especially if they repeatedly state in public that they're going to do everything they can to bring back the original intent of the EDPA in the (so we're told) by-laws that have to be debated and created in order to replace some elements of the EDPA.

Edited by Cassidy, 29 October 2017 - 09:23 PM.

[Benn]

The public voted quite clearly on the issue by supporting Harper. She was anti-EDPA and she won by a wide berth.

The problem with these initiatives is the feedback collected is from a tiny sample comprised of people with an interest in the topic. Officialdom thinks it has the public’s support until the plan hits the public’s consciousness and then you get what we have here.

You mean Harper won the by election by a wide berth? I think it was about 100 votes only?

 

I don't agree with your second statement either. The only reason people were upset by it, is because they got a letter in their mail telling them they should be (because their back yard was now a park and they couldn't mow their lawn anymore). Which of course wasn't true at all.

[Benn]

Private property owners don't like being told what they can or can't do with their property to begin with.

The building code already addresses construction, and Saanich charges through the nose for assorted licenses and inspections during that construction.

 

Saanich property owners see their garden, lawn, pond, bushes, etc as their business, and only their business - nobody else's, especially not the business of some desk bound Saanich functionary.

 

I'd say what happened last night was municipal politicians recognizing that the EDPA was essentially despised by the majority of Saanich property owners affected by it, and that any politician seen as supporting it would never get re-elected.

Likely the proof in the pudding was the fact that our newest councillor actually got elected with a major component of her platform as getting rid of the EDPA.

 

I wouldn't be too terribly surprised to see the "Yes" votes suffer for it in the next election, especially if they repeatedly state in public that they're going to do everything they can to bring back the original intent of the EDPA in the (so we're told) by-laws that have to be debated and created in order to replace some elements of the EDPA.

I agree with most of what you say - except for the 'essentially despised by the majority of Saanich property owners affected by it'. The majority didnt care, or supported it. That's in the public feedback summaries.

 

You are right that it was all politics, and that it will take a long time for policy to recover. Which makes it all the worse I guess. 

 

The science is clear, the remnant ecosystems are disappearing. It comes down to a question of whether you care about that fact or not ultimately. (you in the general sense of course)

[Mike K.]

Ha! You’re right. She won, but not by much from the runner up.

Cassidy nailed it, though. People don’t want government to interfere to that degree and we shouldn’t simplify that sentiment by suggesting people were only concerned about their lawns.

[Cassidy]

The majority didnt care, or supported it. 

I think they would have had to be somewhat concerned, if not for their ownership of the property - then for what was beginning to develop as a major concern as to what an EDPA assignment to your property would do down the road on its resale value.

 

The EDPA was effectively a covenant, and historically, properties with any sort of covenant on them generally sell for less than identical properties without a covenant on them.

 

"Political Overreach" is a definite concern for taxpayers, especially at the municipal level where it tends to affect people directly. 

This would appear to be a classic case of political overreach by a Saanich - where residents generally felt council had majorly wandered outside of their mandate.

Edited by Cassidy, 30 October 2017 - 05:56 AM.

[VicHockeyFan]

 

I'd say what happened last night was municipal politicians recognizing that the EDPA was essentially despised by the majority of Saanich property owners affected by it, 

 

I agree, and it's easy to say you support it when your property is not affected.  And it's to easy to get really upset when it's some bureaucrat enforcing it onto your property.

[Mike K.]

It was a bylaw in search of a problem.

And Cassidy is right, properties with covenants are affected when on the market.

There was also the contention that some folks were not affected as much as their neighbours for dubious reasons.

[VicHockeyFan]

And none more dubious than 941 Woodhall... that somehow got a pass.

 

 

 

[Mike K.]

Right. And who resides at 941 Woodhall?

[spanky123]

You mean Harper won the by election by a wide berth? I think it was about 100 votes only?

 

I don't agree with your second statement either. The only reason people were upset by it, is because they got a letter in their mail telling them they should be (because their back yard was now a park and they couldn't mow their lawn anymore). Which of course wasn't true at all.

 

Quite correct. People also went around door to door making the claim that others were being fined for gardening - also completely bogus.

 

While the new EDPA bylaw is being drafted, we can at least hope that council holds the line on rezoning requests in sensitive areas.

[Mike K.]

Is there any tangible evidence for this door to door stuff, or have urban myths taken hold?

I know anything is possible, but would people walk around neighbourhoods lying to their neighbours or making up wild stories?

In this case though, the outlandish opinions of some could very well have materialized into reality given enough time. A finger today is an arm tomorrow, right? And when it comes to issues like the environment too often sensible decisions are sidestepped for feel-good measures or overreaching policies that accomplish paper pusher’s agendas but which have little impact on the real world.