725 replies to this topic

[rjag]

Helps appointed the members of the 'family' so of course they are aligned with her. There is no evidence whatsoever that people have any insight or have conducted any consultation with anyone.

 

This is a non-governmental body and unelected body with no enforcement power and yet she plays it like 'dont mess with the family'

[Nparker]

"Family" or not, with the current make-up of the CoV council, there was never going to be a scenario where the statue didn't get removed.

[zoomer]

I have no problem with moving John A. somewhere else, but there needed to be a chance for the public to express their opinion.

Wow, who knew Lisa was such a skilled and manipulative politician! Kudos to her for moving forward her agenda, but that’s the thing - it feels like only HER agenda.

One of the statements that I found most condescending, or mocking was her reply to a question CBC’s Justin McElroy asked:

“I asked Helps if there was a timeline for bringing the MacDonald statue back in a recontextualised presentation, and what that might look like.

"That’s a very western colonial question."

https://twitter.com/...0625355776?s=21

[AllseeingEye]

I read somewhere that the core of the "Family" consist of Helps, Alto and Thornton-Joe in addition to various FN representatives.

 

Whoever mentioned earlier about how indigenous peoples in the Americas not under British Colonial rule fared was bang on: just go ask any surviving remnants of the Mayan civilisation in the Yucatan and Belize (I have, in both countries) how things worked out for them under the Spanish. Answer: not so well. At all. They're bottom of the rung plain and simple disenfranchised for the most part, marginalized in terms of education and the workforce especially in Mexico, and generally disdained by the Spanish-speaking majority. And yet those people of Mayan descent with whom I have come into contact are some of the loveliest most gentle folks its ever been my pleasure to encounter.

 

Re: the VicNews link above to the "Family" while Thornton-Joe is quite correct that the Chinese "lost the vote" in this country poor treatment of Chinese emigrants in the 19th century was hardly the sole province of 'privileged white men' in Canada. One has to look to no further than the brutish, medieval conditions in the old country which compelled many Chinese to come to this country in the first place.

 

Many of the plethora of problems plaguing China at the time resulted from an exploding population resulting inevitably in critical land shortages, repeated famine, and an utterly impoverished and dirt poor rural population. Outrageous taxes, inflation, not to mention a thoroughly corrupt central government/bureaucracy all further worsened the plight of the average Chinese. As central bureaucratic corruption, inertia and inefficiency blossomed landowners, secret societies, and military strongmen in various regions took over local affairs. Rebellion, lawlessness, and foreign exploitation continued to plague China up until the Revolution of 1911. The plight of the average Chinese was just as dire as anything they experienced here....

 

Bottom line no culture - white, Asian, FN - is perfect and there is not one does not have significant blemishes in its history. The important thing IMO is how we treat each other today, and we can start not only by not whitewashing history but moreover by not engaging in "shaming" one group merely to placate another because it suits your particular agenda or world view. We all share this tiny ball in space folks and it seems to me the only way we move ahead and solve the very real local, national and global problems that confront all of us - FN, White, Asian...whoever - is also together, without stooping along the way to engage in churlish petty politics and scoring imagined political correctness points simply because you very temporarily occupy the Captain's Chair.....

[bandeeznuts]

Lisa Helps is like your Mommy.  She knows best and you will thank her when your older.

[bandeeznuts]

Lisa's Democracy:

"We spent a year talking behind closed doors and decided we would tell you on a Wednesday its gone on Saturday."  Mommy has spoken.

[rmpeers]

I feel like we are subtly shifting away from having a democratic, accountable local government.

Hopefully the family doesn't have authority to make the mayor Supreme Leader and the Vic PD the Mayor's Private Army.

It would be great to see councillors taking the mayor to task now and then.

Edited by rmpeers, 09 August 2018 - 08:23 PM.

[rjag]

Rick, dont let facts get in teh way of Charlottes emotional position

[On the Level]

I wonder if a business downtown could run a "Sir John A. MacDonald" promotion or show a billboard?  Would CoV pull the business license? 

Edited by On the Level, 09 August 2018 - 08:30 PM.

[Nparker]

...who knew Lisa was such a skilled and manipulative politician! Kudos to her for moving forward her agenda, but that’s the thing - it feels like only HER agenda...

Anyone who has lived in Victoria for the past 4 years has seen examples of Ms Helps manipulating situations to fulfill her agenda. I remain convinced the first tent city campers found the "loophole" of the provincial courthouse grounds as a direct result of assistance from our beloved mayor. Why else would she have given them an award after that particular nightmare got her what she wanted?

Edited by Nparker, 09 August 2018 - 08:50 PM.

[Bingo]

Bottom line no culture - white, Asian, FN - is perfect and there is not one does not have significant blemishes in its history.

The important thing IMO is how we treat each other today, and we can start not only by not whitewashing history but moreover by not engaging in "shaming" one group merely to placate another because it suits your particular agenda or world view. 

 

In another 75 years it will be my great grandchildren that will be seeking restitution for the time the Victoria Mayor and Council removed the statue of the first Prime Minister of Canada from in front of City Hall and replaced it with a bunch of surfboards sticking out of the ground a few blocks away on what was once First Nations land.

[rjag]

https://markmilke.co...attack-the-past

 

 

 

Those in charge of the ensuing destruction may be theocratic totalitarians. They might be twenty-something tyrants or academic agitators who wish they did rule. But the temptation is the same: Find a figure with whom one disagrees and agitate to send their legacy, statue or both down some Orwellian memory hole. The result is public squares ideologically cleansed of the past.

[Nparker]

From today's TC (with a special "letters to the editor" section devoted to this topic)

By 6 p.m. on Thursday, the Times Colonist had received 67 letters to the editor about Victoria city council’s decision to remove the statue of Sir John A. Macdonald from outside city hall. All but three of the letters were opposed to moving the monument.

 

[David Bratzer]

Going through various CoV budget documents.  The 2018 budget for the City Family is $50,000 plus unspent funds from 2017.  The City Family met three times in 2017.

[David Bratzer]

Some good Council meeting video here with Lisa Helps talking about the City Family at the 6:32:54 mark.

[Bingo]

Today's Times-Colonist has a full page of letters to the editor about the decision to remove MacDonald's statue.

https://www.timescol...atue-1.23395748

[satellite]

Shes picked a pretty transparent social/culture war issue in an election year. Probably hoping for a conservative backlash to jazz up her base. Having federal conservative leader jump at this as he did for the same reasons played out exactly how she wanted. Sad to see us head towards US style polarized culture wars. It has absolutely nothing about governing and policy.

[Nparker]

...Sad to see us head towards US style polarized culture wars. It has absolutely nothing about governing and policy.

Especially at the municipal level. Stick to maintaining the roads, sidewalks and subterranean infrastructure. Leave the social engineering to the provinces and the feds.

[Nparker]

The following was sent to me by a friend who has considerably more conservative leanings than I have, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.
 

Dear friends,

As you might have heard, the City of Victoria Council is planning to remove the statue of Canada’s Father of Confederation– our first Prime Minister – Sir John A. Macdonald.

This is not a political issue. At stake is letting a politically correct politburo, lead by Mayor Lisa Helps, decide what is and is not history. Next will they erase the images of Macdonald from paintings, or change the name of Victoria to Leningrad? Macdonald was essential to our country’s founding – without whom our province or maybe even our country would be flying the stars and stripes instead of the maple leaf; watching Football instead of Hockey.

Friends – that is not to say that Macdonald was without fault. We need to confront these issues by building bridges and connections – not tearing them down. As Churchill said, “Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

Friends of ours at BC Proud, an online group promoting free-enterprise and a strong British Columbia are holding a rally this Saturday at Victoria City Hall. If you would like to show your support for Canada, for Sir John A. Macdonald, and our heritage – the rally will be at 12:00 noon on Saturday, August 11th. Bring your Canada Flag along!

What:              Rally to Save John A.
When:             Saturday, 12:00 noon
Where:            Victoria City Hall, 1 Centennial Square, Victoria BC

Thanks for taking the time to read this message – an important one to share in our community. If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to our team.

Yours truly,

Ryan Trelford
President, Saanich-Gulf Islands Conservatives

P.S. For more information, check out this interesting video: Stop Trying To Erase Canadian History

 

[Cassidy]

Trying so hard to care about this story from any angle, either positive or negative.

 

Just can't though ... find myself not caring at all, and feeling no compulsion to move away from simply not caring at all.

 

Leave it up ... or take it down ... I personally couldn't care less than I do. (a sentiment likely shared by somebody else somewhere, perhaps even more than one person?).