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Vivid at the Yates
Uses: condo, commercial
Address: 849 Johnson Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 20
Condo units: (1BR, 2BR, 1BR + den)
Sales status: sold out / resales only
Vivid at the Yates is a 20-storey, 135-unit below market condominium tower situated along the 800-block of Joh... (view full profile)
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[Downtown Victoria] Vivid at the Yates | Attainable condos; market commercial | 20-storeys | Built - completed in 2021


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#141 spanky123

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 08:15 AM

They’re not marketing to parents, but it’s the parents who are catching wind of the opportunity and encouraging their kids to take a serious look at the project.

The parents can’t be listed a co-purchasers if their income together with their child’s is above $150k.

 

If you are featuring the use case you are marketing the product!

 

Put it in your kid's name, pay cash and then flip in two years. You get the added benefit of any gain being tax free to your child. They can pay you back with the proceeds,

 

Shouldn't be an issue unless the price isn't really at a discount to what it is actually worth. 



#142 Freedom57

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:39 AM

It should be required to hold the property for at least 5 years......  the current proposal makes no sense at all.  Probably the politicians friends and/or family will be primarily the ones who will be approved to purchase.  Ha!



#143 Jackerbie

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:55 AM

I think it's worth noting that, although having parents turn up at the showroom may be unexpected, giving a "living inheritance" to help the kid out of the house isn't exactly uncommon in Canada. There was a survey last year that shows around a third of Boomers in Vancouver had helped finance their child's home purchase, with the national average around 30% (Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, and Montreal were the markets surveyed). Report is here: https://globalnews.c...quality-canada/


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#144 Bingo

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:58 AM

I think it's worth noting that, although having parents turn up at the showroom may be unexpected, giving a "living inheritance" to help the kid out of the house isn't exactly uncommon in Canada. There was a survey last year that shows around a third of Boomers in Vancouver had helped finance their child's home purchase, with the national average around 30% (Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, and Montreal were the markets surveyed). Report is here: https://globalnews.c...quality-canada/

 

Or set-up an RESP for your grandchildren.


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#145 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:09 AM

Yup parents helping with the purchase is nothing new.

My parents went on title of my first home to help me qualify.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#146 spanky123

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:14 AM

I think it's worth noting that, although having parents turn up at the showroom may be unexpected, giving a "living inheritance" to help the kid out of the house isn't exactly uncommon in Canada. There was a survey last year that shows around a third of Boomers in Vancouver had helped finance their child's home purchase, with the national average around 30% (Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, and Montreal were the markets surveyed). Report is here: https://globalnews.c...quality-canada/

 

Just loan the kid your money interest free or provide them a gift. You don't need to get fancy. No need to go on title.

 

I am not advocating that people try and game the system. I am just pointing out yet another example of the Government trying to artificially manipulate a market only to have people thwart the plans to their own benefit. The people that the Government are trying to help actually wind up worse off as now the units won't even be available in any rental pool.

 

I am not saying that the developer is doing anything wrong either, but featuring use cases where parents buy condos in their kids names just highlights the issue. Why not feature young working families buying units that they can afford to be able to live and work downtown if that is what the Government is actually trying to encourage. 


Edited by spanky123, 15 February 2018 - 10:19 AM.


#147 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 11:55 AM

Just loan the kid your money interest free or provide them a gift. You don't need to get fancy. No need to go on title.

 

My folks went on title rather than gifting any money.  It helped me qualify since I was self-employed.


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 15 February 2018 - 11:56 AM.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#148 magmazing

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:29 PM

Phase 1 (Yates building) date of commencement was between November 2017 and now, which I assume is what's been the activity at the site so far. Completion date is estimated to be between September and December 2020.

 

Phase 2 (Vivid) date of commencement is estimated to be between September and December 2019 with an estimated completion date between February and May 2021.

 

So while the overall project is going up at the same time, the towers might be staggered by a few months. 



#149 Mike K.

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:50 PM

I am not advocating that people try and game the system. I am just pointing out yet another example of the Government trying to artificially manipulate a market only to have people thwart the plans to their own benefit.

 

Nobody is gaming anything, but young or first-time buyers sure have an opportunity here if they can get mom and dad to help them with the down payment. Mom and dad can't be on title as that may push through the income ceiling, but why wouldn't you help your kid get in to a condo if it's at a discounted rate and the exchange for that is a residency period?

 

And after the two year period is up what the purchaser does with the unit is their business and theirs alone. I don't think you would advocate for creating regulations over the re-sale of the unit as that only punishes the entry level buyer while everyone else can ride out the market as they deem fit.


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#150 lanforod

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:51 PM

I do think the 150k income is too high, should be under 100k IMO. Someone with 130k family income can easily afford a 500k place already.

Other than that, I don't see a problem with how this works.


Edited by lanforod, 15 February 2018 - 12:52 PM.

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#151 Mike K.

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 01:28 PM

I believe the target is $125k but folks can still qualify if under $150k.

 

Even if you and your partner are earning $60k each the bank will give you a maximum of ~$450k in a mortgage, and that's only if you have zero debt, no car payments, no childcare payments and your total monthly expenses are limited to $1,200 in addition to your mortgage amount (inclusive of insurance, taxes and municipal fees).

 

Consider that a 1BR + den + parking condo in downtown Victoria is now in the range of $500k. And that's a tight layout for two people. If as a couple you're looking for a 2BR + parking you're faced with $600k - $650k, and 2BR + den + parking is $700k+.

 

So if you can get into a 2BR at Vivid, with parking, for around $500k, that's a huge difference to your bottom line.


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#152 spanky123

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 01:33 PM

Nobody is gaming anything, but young or first-time buyers sure have an opportunity here if they can get mom and dad to help them with the down payment. Mom and dad can't be on title as that may push through the income ceiling, but why wouldn't you help your kid get in to a condo if it's at a discounted rate and the exchange for that is a residency period?

 

And after the two year period is up what the purchaser does with the unit is their business and theirs alone. I don't think you would advocate for creating regulations over the re-sale of the unit as that only punishes the entry level buyer while everyone else can ride out the market as they deem fit.

 

If your kid plans to live there fine. I am talking about putting it in your kids name for 2 years solely so that it can be flipped when the taxpayer is kicking in $20K to $40K a unit in subsidies.



#153 Mike K.

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 01:45 PM

Locking in your down payment amount for five years ($50k, let's say) then carrying 24 months of mortgage+strata+insurance+taxes ($2,000 per month, let's say; more like $2,600 more on a $500k unit) doesn't sound too practical.

 

And on top of that you've just your forced your kid to give up his or her first-time-buyer credit by participating in the scheme. I just don't see a reasonable person pursuing something like this.


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#154 spanky123

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 02:06 PM

Locking in your down payment amount for five years ($50k, let's say) then carrying 24 months of mortgage+strata+insurance+taxes ($2,000 per month, let's say; more like $2,600 more on a $500k unit) doesn't sound too practical.

 

And on top of that you've just your forced your kid to give up his or her first-time-buyer credit by participating in the scheme. I just don't see a reasonable person pursuing something like this.

 

You don't have to be a first time home buyer to qualify here. The down payment is tied up regardless of whether you buy or flip.



#155 lanforod

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 02:07 PM

The latter part about the first time home buyer credit doesnt come into play for units worth over 500k market value.



#156 Mike K.

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 02:54 PM

You don't have to be a first time home buyer to qualify here. The down payment is tied up regardless of whether you buy or flip.

 

No, of course not, but the likelihood of the scenario you're describing occurring under the name of someone who has already owned or owns property is even smaller. There's many, many more practical and straight forward ways of investing in real-estate than trying to game the system with Vivid.

 

Under a traditional purchase situation you can assign your unit at any time and you can list the home the moment you take possession. That gives the mom and dad in your scenario at least some opportunity for liquidity, and a maximum of a three year hold versus a five year hold plus another $50k in carrying costs.

 

Now you can assign your unit at Vivid, but it must be to an individual who qualifies under the Vivid qualification requirements and your assignment must be for the sale value you paid.

 

The latter part about the first time home buyer credit doesnt come into play for units worth over 500k market value.

 

Yes, that's right. The first-time credit only applies to $500k and partially applies between $500k and $525k. 

 

And as I also recently found out, if the property is over a half-hectare you qualify for a partial credit.


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#157 MarkoJ

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 03:18 PM

The interesting thing is someone with $10 million net worth can qualify to buy in Vivid if their T4A shows below $150,000 per year. I find that to be a bit of an oversight.


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#158 tjv

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:18 PM

^but the same is true for corporations, I could make $10 million a year in my corporation and only pay myself 75k a year

 

On another note, I went thru that with my mortgage worried that I didn't show a lot of personal income, but the bank told me they didn't care what I paid myself, the income from my solely own corporation is what they use to qualify me.


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#159 spanky123

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:56 PM

The interesting thing is someone with $10 million net worth can qualify to buy in Vivid if their T4A shows below $150,000 per year. I find that to be a bit of an oversight.

 

So is it employment income they go by or total income (ie what shows on your income tax form). 



#160 Matt R.

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:21 PM

I have zero T4 income, it’s all dividends. Bank(s) didn’t care as the corporation has only two shareholders, both applying for a mortgage. Total income from all sources was what they wanted to see.

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