196 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

I’m hearing that the land was actually appraised at a higher value than what was paid, so there’s that to consider.

[spanky123]

^ Sure but what were the terms of the appraisal? Was it current state or after rezoning? 

 

Depending on the audience and use, you can get a report that states whatever number you want.

Edited by spanky123, 10 May 2020 - 11:33 AM.

[tiger11]

It was a market deal. The city didn't get a deal, but didn't overpay. Development lands are scarce and this sale at 75 per buildable is right where it should be given the obsolescence in the area. 

 

 

I’m hearing that the land was actually appraised at a higher value than what was paid, so there’s that to consider.

[MarkoJ]

It was a market deal. The city didn't get a deal, but didn't overpay. Development lands are scarce and this sale at 75 per buildable is right where it should be given the obsolescence in the area. 

 

Highly doubt given the developers are seating on unsold inventory (Jukebox, 989, Hudson, etc.) that his development site went up 140% in a time-span where the market went up 20%. Something doesn't add up.

[Nparker]

It was a market deal. The city didn't get a deal, but didn't overpay... 

Regardless, the CoV shouldn't be purchasing property in the heart of downtown for social housing. There has to be cheaper land available.

[Casual Kev]

Regardless, the CoV shouldn't be purchasing property in the heart of downtown for social housing. There has to be cheaper land available.

 

In the CoV itself? Maybe somewhere in Gorge-Burnside but I can't see anywhere else that would be both cheaper than a Pandora/Quadra lot and available for purchase. I'd imagine land along the harbor between the bridges could be cheaper but I'd imagine the optics of turning active, scarce industrial land into social housing would be horrible. 

[Nparker]

...the optics of turning active, scarce industrial land into social housing would be horrible. 

The optics of further "slummifying" the 900 block of Pandora aren't exactly ideal either.

[IPH]

240% increase for holding the property less than 4 years.  Sounds like the developer did well without having all the risks of actually building it and waiting years for their return. 

 

Based on a drive down Pandora this week, you'd have to be crazy to propose a condo development in that block unless you like extreme risks.  You'd practically have to give the units away with all that at your front door!

 

The city keeps saying the use of hotels & the arena to house all the Pandora campers is only a temporary solution and they plan to find long term housing for them.  Could this be "Our Place 2.0" !

[Kapten Kapsell]

240% increase for holding the property less than 4 years. Sounds like the developer did well without having all the risks of actually building it and waiting years for their return.

Based on a drive down Pandora this week, you'd have to be crazy to propose a condo development in that block unless you like extreme risks. You'd practically have to give the units away with all that at your front door!

Well several buildings with market rate condos have been developed in and around the downtown east side of Vancouver in recent years, and the developments have generally performed well: so well that there is pushback from certain activists to try to prevent additional ones from being constructed.

Edited by Kapten Kapsell, 10 May 2020 - 06:16 PM.

[Casual Kev]

The optics of further "slummifying" the 900 block of Pandora aren't exactly ideal either.

I agree, but that's reality wherever you put social housing. Given their presence hasn't scared away nearby development the trend will likely continue. Not like there are many places you're allowed to build upwards outside of the CoV.

[MarkoJ]

I agree, but that's reality wherever you put social housing. Given their presence hasn't scared away nearby development the trend will likely continue. Not like there are many places you're allowed to build upwards outside of the CoV.

 

At this point it is definitively starting to impact buyer mindset. I've had three buyers now request to skip showings at 989 Johnson because of everything going on in the area. 

[Mike K.]

^holy smokes.

[MarkoJ]

How could it not when you drive down Pandora and there are arrows being shot at cars.....needs to be dealt with asap imo.

[Mike K.]

Understandably, yes.

[IPH]

As a developer and investor I am surprised that it is just "starting to impact buyer mindset".  I looked at opportunities in this area a couple of years back and after seeing the mess on Pandora starting to creep further out walked quickly away.  As Marko says this needs to be dealt with, but I don't think our council has the ability to do so.

[Mike K.]

On the grand scale, though, it’s not a big deal.

Look at the DTES. Land prices there are as outrageous as elsewhere in the downtown area.

With services like Our Place, etc, they can move. But land doesn’t, so the value is reflective of the zoning. Short term, though, and the response from buyers or leasees, is another matter entirely.

[IPH]

After spending the money to build Our Place, it is unlikely they are going to move anytime soon.  When investing (individual units or land for development) I always ask if I would be willing to live there, or happy to have any of my family members live there before I am willing to invest.  In the case of anything near the 900 block of Pandora the answer is No and I think the majority of people in the CRD would agree with me.

[Mike K.]

Developers have been snapping up land as soon as it comes online so it’s not really seen as a concern (yet) for long-term moves (5+ years). It is for the end-user, though, at present, as Marko says.

Once the tents are cleared out I think it’ll be back to business as normal.

[Nparker]

...Once the tents are cleared out I think it’ll be back to business as normal.

Even pre-squatter Pandora is nowhere I'd choose to live.

[Nparker]

...As Marko says this needs to be dealt with, but I don't think our council has the ability to do so.

Actually, I think the CoV council is dealing with the situation. Unfortunately, their plan is to make it worse.