830 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Yeah, we say that about Nanaimo’s pick-up work at the bar all the time.

[m3m]

With Bart's reopening, Starbucks going in at the doubletree, and the telus ocean project, this little corner will be bustling.  I hope the line ups at the ping pong table aren't too long. 

[Kapten Kapsell]

This project was revised last month. 

Aryze has prepared a detailed response to the city's input as well as some renderings.  The response can be found here:  https://tender.victo...802102424984245

 

Renderings:

[Nparker]

It's very shiny.

[Rob Randall]

I'd sign off on that.

 

Since it's such a big tourist area it would be great if there was something in the lobby that would interest them. Like a big video map where you enter your hometown or something. I've seen a lot of big corporate office buildings in NYC and Vancouver with some pretty interesting things in the lobby to interact with. Anything to prevent it from being a black hole. And because "coffee shop" shouldn't be the lone answer to ground floor pedestrian vibrancy.

[Nparker]

...because "coffee shop" shouldn't be the lone answer to ground floor pedestrian vibrancy.

Perhaps Telus will apply for a pot shop license.

[AllseeingEye]

Yeah its ok, not bad. Must be by far the smallest and (naturally being Victoria) the shortest TELUS regional HQ/Ops building in western Canada if not the country I would imagine.

[spanky123]

I'd sign off on that.

 

Since it's such a big tourist area it would be great if there was something in the lobby that would interest them. Like a big video map where you enter your hometown or something. I've seen a lot of big corporate office buildings in NYC and Vancouver with some pretty interesting things in the lobby to interact with. Anything to prevent it from being a black hole. And because "coffee shop" shouldn't be the lone answer to ground floor pedestrian vibrancy.

 

Most corporates don't want people hanging out in their lobbies, a big security risk. Anywhere I have been in Manhattan you can't even get into the lobby without going through security.

[JohnsonStBridge]

The bottom floor lifts combined with the flat iron-esk points give the Douglas St facade the look of a giant ship. Too bad BC Ferries can't be the anchor tenant.

[zoomer]

Hello there..

Good to see a MRI machine in no longer promoted as an amenity, although the building lobby is.. In the end the building itself should be the amenity so that’s fair.

Also interesting to see the Development Services Division comments mirrored mine made previously here, despite the proponent’s statement I knew not of what I speak. Some concerns were addressed by the proponent and some were not, so I do wonder if this has any chance at all.

I wasn’t a big fan of the unbroken featureless long glass wall which could make this a modern day View Towers, so it’s good to see the applicant’s response and change of direction:

“Rather than a large singular sweeping gesture, a composition has been developed with a set of middle-scaled groups of angled panels introducing a more detailed and articulated facade approach.” “Along with the revised mid-scale pattern, the small scale - the angled panels that make up the ‘wave’ - were revised to achieve a finer grain in the facade articulation that is more suited to the compositional hierarchy.” I’m pretty sure Aastra helped write that sentence, he’s always grumbling about ‘fine grains’ and I don’t think it has anything to do with the premium artisan buns he consumes.

I do like the up close look of the glass wall now - good job; however, the overall design remains a large generic shape lacking compelling or significant distinguishing features. The Development Services Division comments: “please consider introducing a building recess, shifts in building plane, or other architectural design approaches to break up the length of the building while still maintaining a cohesive overall architectural composition.”

Based on the current council composition I don’t believe this will be approved. Potts, Dubow and Isitt will likely be opposed, I’d be surprised to see Loveday and Young vote in favour - the only vote in favour for sure at this point would be Lisa Helps.

Perhaps the proponent needs to present an ‘informal amenity’.. say for example promoting and building temporary container homes? Instead of the amenity being located at the current site, perhaps on an unused parking lot elsewhere in the city? Surely that would help sway the left wingers on city council to vote in favour? Although donors are contributing the $500,000 I’m sure the cost to Aryze is easily in the tens of thousands of dollars, if not several hundreds of thousands of dollars to build and play the role they are. Very generous and wise as it’s a relatively small $ spend to potentially gain approval or at least a favourable perception of a developer/development. It also helps to be on board with the mayor and her vision and to be seen as leaders in a ‘grass roots’ initiative, even with anonymous large scale donors.

If the Telus proposal doesn’t go through, rather than see this site remain under-utilized for years to come it could be a good temporary location another shipping container village. Has the advantage of being close to the conference centre and it’s washrooms, and the ballrooms could be used for socially distanced sleeping pods. The neighbouring hotels could also provide additional housing in the same neighbourhood. Not to mention it’s conveniently located close to Beacon Hill Park. Just a thought.

Overall some improvements in response to the feedback; upon reflection it’s moved from a 3/10 to a 5.5/10. As AllseeingEye said “Yeah, it’s ok, not bad”.

[aastra]

I'm trying to understand the following from page 12. It sounds like that large "back" corner section of the building (shown in Kapten Kapsell's first pic above) would effectively be windowless? That seems crazy to me. I'm really starting to wonder, is the CoV trying to position itself as the world leader in excessive use of spandrel panels (or otherwise blank surfaces) on prominent new buildings? Maybe "too tall" has officially been retired and "needs more cowbell spandrel" has taken over as the new critical catchphrase?

 

The Penwill elevation is actually quite striking. But methinks that corner section would be diminished mightily if it gets rendered in mostly solid wall. The manner by which they've tried to transition from walls to windows seems like a decent effort, and I sympathize if they're responding to concerned residents next door who think having a view of nothing is preferable to having a view of something. But crikey, that seems like a lot of non-window wall. I thought this was supposed to be prominent showpiece of a building? And it seems like such a slap to that wide walkway, to have a towering blank wall for much of its length. I'm not picking on the developer, I actually like a lot of the language in the document. But this aspect is very disappointing.

 

 

"To balance concerns around material use and perceived environmental detriments, the revised design will substantially increase the area of spandrel panel and solid building envelope. Angled panels will receive a solid wall return on all three upper facades - Douglas, Humboldt, and Penwill."

"On Penwill and Humboldt, significant portions of the facade will be solid angled panels echoing the glazed panels and tying into the overall language and texture of the building. These solid panels replace glazed and spandrel panels to further address privacy concerns from the neighbouring buildings."

 

Edited by aastra, 19 January 2021 - 11:04 PM.

[aastra]

The following might go over a few heads but it should seem very amusing to anyone who remembers the controversy re: the Falls. We've predicted this sort of thing before. Buildings that were criticized for being offensive intrusions when first proposed will eventually be recognized as worthy & credible elements of the established milieu (which I suppose is a good omen for the developers of this Telus project):

 

 

...the "wave" element on the Douglas Street facade is reconfigured to reference the Falls in pattern and in scale.

 

 

The soffitt of the overhang along Douglas has been revised to wood panels echoing the soffits of the Falls.

Edited by aastra, 19 January 2021 - 10:38 PM.

[aastra]

Regarding the opaque walls: even if we accept the reasoning for it, does it really need to be so severe? Would it be the end of the world* if there were a few more windows scattered here and there to break it up a bit?

 

 

These solid panels replace glazed and spandrel panels to further address privacy concerns from the neighbouring buildings."

 

*end of the world reference

Edited by aastra, 19 January 2021 - 11:05 PM.

[aastra]

It must give every developer headaches. If you propose to have windows facing toward existing buildings, people will complain and say they prefer blank wall. If you propose to have blank walls facing toward existing buildings, people will complain and say they prefer windows.

[zoomer]

It’s a ridiculous game they both play filled with ambiguity and poetic spin. It reeks of elitist bs although I’m sure the developers would rather have more clarity, predictability and confidence in the process from the beginning.

Check out this wording below from the Development Services Division - mind blown... someone was paid to come up with this nonsense.

The area is “transitional” and “disparate”.. ? In what sense is it transitional and why does that matter? How is it more transitional in terms of land use than other areas of the city? It’s disparate? So, shouldn’t we continue with that theme then? It’s not like the city can raze all the disparate buildings in an attempt to have greater consistency/conformity. “Instead of introducing a highly juxtaposed building and yet another contrasting design into this milieu, a more harmonizing architectural approach and energy efficient wall to window ratio is required...”. WTAF!!

So Victoria - that’s the thinking that leads us to more spandrel and blank walls. And good observation Aastra, I missed how excessive it was on the back side.

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[zoomer]

It appears for every well thought out observation the Development Services Division makes they have to balance it out with a ridiculous one. I understand now why Aastra becomes unhinged after reading this stuff and ends up replying to his own comments on VV. I hope I never do that. Or post after midnight.

[Rob Randall]

That's funny. I'm always saying here how the Harris Green neighbourhood's delightful architectural chaos is also disparate and transitional. So my directive is that anything new should also be disparate. Mock Tudor? Art Deco? Japanese bungalow? Bring it on! But what is good for HG is apparently disaster further west.

 

This document is futilely trying to bring order to the similar chaos of Douglas/Belleville/Humboldt by implying they need to take architectural cues from nearby buildings. Yeah? How did that work for the conference centre and Songhees? Middling at best?

Edited by Rob Randall, 20 January 2021 - 06:47 AM.

[Mike K.]

I think they’re implying the situation behind the Empress is a hot mess and that they’d like this proposal to bring some order by negating the jarring disparity with a singular glass shape as the backdrop.

[spanky123]

With the amount of office space available on the market for lease or sub-lease right now I am surprised that Telus hasn't hit the pause button. I reason this is still years out but I would be looking for more certainty before I committed. Telus has deep pockets but they are also a public company and nobody wants to be paying for an empty building.

[Rob Randall]

In what sense is it transitional and why does that matter? How is it more transitional in terms of land use than other areas of the city? 

 

It's transitional in that it's just a few hundred metres from the the Fairfield/James Bay area containing more toned down residential/park/office uses compared with the bustling Government/Humboldt area.

 

But I maintain there is nothing substantial an architect can do with that knowledge. There is nothing from the "quiet" area next door that can architecturally inform this building in a significant and meaningful way. What do they want? Put a little roof on it? A copper hat?