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UNDER CONSTRUCTION
TELUS Ocean
Uses: office, commercial
Address: 767 Douglas Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 10
The Apex Site property on Douglas Street at Humboldt Street in downtown Victoria, also known as the 'Budget Lo... (view full profile)
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[Downtown] TELUS Ocean - Apex Site | TELUS and Aryze Developments


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#541 Mattjvd

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 07:20 AM

Hold on, Mayor Helps wants to do away with public hearings?


I would be 100% in support. Get public input and have council vote on OCPs: development applications and rezonings within the OCP should just be reviewed by staff. There shouldn't even be a council meeting, let alone a public hearing.

Edited by Mattjvd, 01 April 2021 - 07:20 AM.

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#542 spanky123

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 07:39 AM

I would be 100% in support. Get public input and have council vote on OCPs: development applications and rezonings within the OCP should just be reviewed by staff. There shouldn't even be a council meeting, let alone a public hearing.


As it stands, council rejects staff recommendations very often.

#543 PPPdev

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 08:29 AM

The same applies to developers, they dont have the interest of the community as the core of their business, they are a business.

 

Sorry bub, you lost me when you spoke on behalf of an entire industry because you are apparently are some sort of famous developer 



#544 rjag

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 08:33 AM

Sorry bub, you lost me when you spoke on behalf of an entire industry because you are apparently are some sort of famous developer 

 

And its that attitude where you lose all credibility. You're incapable of reasoned criticism...


Edited by rjag, 01 April 2021 - 08:40 AM.

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#545 Barrrister

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 08:35 AM

PPPdev. Sorry but you have now lost any credibility after reading your series of posts. You dont seem to have any self awareness. But continue damaging your own arguments.


Edited by Barrrister, 01 April 2021 - 08:35 AM.

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#546 PPPdev

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 09:30 AM

Jeepers, folks are low on the sarcasm radar on VV today!

 

Sorry but if you don't have the self awareness to see that generalizing an entire industry does not lead to any discussion let alone a productive one. These arguments are always the same, its like on cue, somebody comes out of the woodwork who says they are a developer and are therefore an industry insider here to expose the truths behind the veil. It gets tiring for those who are working day in and day out to build housing. Nothing you've said is criticism and when you have to preface your points by slandering an entire industry...well it doesn't help your credibility...

 

So, lets try this again:

 

- We all seem to agree there is a housing crisis

- We all seem to agree that housing prices are insane

- We all seem to support density: https://dailyhive.co...vey-spring-2019

- Every builder seems to agree that its very very very hard to build housing

- Almost unanimously, through the DAPR process, municipal staff, provincial staff, non-profits, co-housing providers, private developers all agree the current process of public hearings is old and favours existing homeowners and should be done away with

 

Yet you're only critique is 'developer greed, no wonder they want public hearings to go away'. that's not critique, that is just a weak insult.


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#547 Hotel Mike

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 09:41 AM

As it stands, council rejects staff recommendations very often.

Sometimes spanky, staff can manipulate information to achieve what they see as desired outcomes. I don't mean outright lie about things, just stack the data so that Council can't help but vote their way. 


Don't be so sure.:cool:

#548 rmpeers

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 09:54 AM

Jeepers, folks are low on the sarcasm radar on VV today!

Sorry but if you don't have the self awareness to see that generalizing an entire industry does not lead to any discussion let alone a productive one. These arguments are always the same, its like on cue, somebody comes out of the woodwork who says they are a developer and are therefore an industry insider here to expose the truths behind the veil. It gets tiring for those who are working day in and day out to build housing. Nothing you've said is criticism and when you have to preface your points by slandering an entire industry...well it doesn't help your credibility...

So, lets try this again:

- We all seem to agree there is a housing crisis
- We all seem to agree that housing prices are insane
- We all seem to support density: https://dailyhive.co...vey-spring-2019
- Every builder seems to agree that its very very very hard to build housing
- Almost unanimously, through the DAPR process, municipal staff, provincial staff, non-profits, co-housing providers, private developers all agree the current process of public hearings is old and favours existing homeowners and should be done away with

Yet you're only critique is 'developer greed, no wonder they want public hearings to go away'. that's not critique, that is just a weak insult.


But isn't it the case that pretty much anyone engaged in a money-making endeavour would welcome government doing away with anything that might impede their business? An oil company might argue that environmental regs should be minimized because their product is needed for the greater good of society. But whatever the argument, we need more housing or whatever (and you may genuinely believe this), money is always a significant motivator.

#549 Banksy

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 09:58 AM

So, lets try this again:

 

- We all seem to agree there is a housing crisis

- We all seem to agree that housing prices are insane

- We all seem to support density: https://dailyhive.co...vey-spring-2019

- Every builder seems to agree that its very very very hard to build housing

- Almost unanimously, through the DAPR process, municipal staff, provincial staff, non-profits, co-housing providers, private developers all agree the current process of public hearings is old and favours existing homeowners and should be done away with

There is no housing crisis.

Prices reflect fair market value for the most desirable place to live in Canada.

We do not all support density.

Builders are building thousands of units of housing every year.

 

Now allow me to qualify.

 

The only housing crisis is among people who want a two million dollar house in Oak Bay but can only afford to pay $500,000. For renters, there is so much affordable rental inventory in Greater Victoria that units are sitting empty waiting for qualified renters to absorb them. I can show you dozens and dozens and dozens of empty units which have been empty for months in subsidized and below market housing.

 

Prices are not high enough to discourage record numbers of purchases over 2020 and now into 2021. 1,200 market properties were bought in March and this does not include hundreds of presales not tracked by MLS.

 

Density has its place in the right context and the right setting. It is not universally wanted or desired.

 

Builders are concerned too much inventory is coming onto the market right now and rental developers are taking advantage of government programs to mitigate over supply risk.


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#550 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 11:12 AM

most existing SFD homeowners do not want density anywhere close to them.  that's for sure.

 

housing prices might be "insane" but every seller takes the highest bid.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 01 April 2021 - 11:13 AM.


#551 PPPdev

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 11:50 AM

But isn't it the case that pretty much anyone engaged in a money-making endeavour would welcome government doing away with anything that might impede their business? An oil company might argue that environmental regs should be minimized because their product is needed for the greater good of society. But whatever the argument, we need more housing or whatever (and you may genuinely believe this), money is always a significant motivator.

 

Please, show me who are all these peoples who worked for free their entire careers :) EVERYBODY works for money and greed exists everywhere. Toyota doesn't have to consult every time they want to build a new truck. Banks don't have to consult every time they introduce a new credit card. Farmers don't need to consultant if they decide to switch up crops. Diverse housing a tied to better social, environmental, mental, and economic outcomes. It is a-political but subject to a very odd political process.

 

The point is that we should question whether the current process that is decades old geared to serving the modern + broader City needs and I think most people would say that its not. 



#552 PPPdev

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 11:54 AM

There is no housing crisis.

 

The only housing crisis is among people who want a two million dollar house in Oak Bay but can only afford to pay $500,000. For renters, there is so much affordable rental inventory in Greater Victoria that units are sitting empty waiting for qualified renters to absorb them. I can show you dozens and dozens and dozens of empty units which have been empty for months in subsidized and below market housing.

 

You might be alone on an island thinking there is no housing crisis :)

 

We build and own rental buildings and know many others who do as well, this is not our experience at all.

 

You've presented a statistical outliers to summarize housing demand. You're reason to say there is no housing crisis is people wanting $2m homes who can only afford $500k? As a home builder, your example is less than 0.1% of the story we hear. The buyers are normal who don't want to leave the City and uproot their kids from school. They are people moving here for job prospects. They are people living in condos wanting to have another bedroom for their growing family. 

 

it should be equally as difficult to build a $2m SFD as it is to build a $800k townhouse.


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#553 rmpeers

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 11:59 AM

A person's home is typically the biggest purchase they ever make and there is often financial and other challenges in getting to that purchase. Its a huge decision and investment, made not just based on their liking the home itself but also the surrounding block, street, whatever. Having done all that, how is it not fair that they be given a decent say in the matter if someone proposes to significantly change a neighbouring property?
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#554 PPPdev

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 12:07 PM

A person's home is typically the biggest purchase they ever make and there is often financial and other challenges in getting to that purchase. Its a huge decision and investment, made not just based on their liking the home itself but also the surrounding block, street, whatever. Having done all that, how is it not fair that they be given a decent say in the matter if someone proposes to significantly change a neighbouring property?

 

Totally agree, but that should be done at the OCP level which takes into account the broader City needs instead of their own specific needs. Strong design guidelines are also a filter to ensure projects avoid specific conflicts with adjacent properties.


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#555 Banksy

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 01:34 PM

You might be alone on an island thinking there is no housing crisis :)

 

We build and own rental buildings and know many others who do as well, this is not our experience at all.

 

You've presented a statistical outliers to summarize housing demand. You're reason to say there is no housing crisis is people wanting $2m homes who can only afford $500k? As a home builder, your example is less than 0.1% of the story we hear. The buyers are normal who don't want to leave the City and uproot their kids from school. They are people moving here for job prospects. They are people living in condos wanting to have another bedroom for their growing family. 

 

it should be equally as difficult to build a $2m SFD as it is to build a $800k townhouse.

 

Those buyers are abnormal not normal. They are missing every train leaving every station and are unlikely to do what you say they want to do because they are being outpriced by the 10,000 families that bought homes in the last year who are alone with me on my island of reality.

 

I like the Telus project and I think we should stick to that project in this thread.



#556 Nparker

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 03:44 PM

....I like the Telus project and I think we should stick to that project in this thread.

:thumbsup:



#557 Mike K.

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 04:31 PM

Alright, let's remember this is the Telus thread. We have a housing affordability thread that is a far more meaningful place to hold this discussion, which it sounds like people want to continue so ---> https://vibrantvicto...170#entry598300 Please and thank you  :wave:

 

Edit: I've moved some posts over, in case anyone is looking for them.


Edited by Mike K., 01 April 2021 - 04:33 PM.

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#558 Mike K.

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Posted 06 May 2021 - 05:23 AM

This is interesting. Telus is getting into the residential development industry on Vancouver Island with a project planned for downtown Nanaimo: https://omicronaec.c...living-nanaimo/


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#559 spanky123

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Posted 06 May 2021 - 05:52 AM

This is interesting. Telus is getting into the residential development industry on Vancouver Island with a project planned for downtown Nanaimo: https://omicronaec.c...living-nanaimo/

 

Maybe they are doing the math and figuring that expensive office space isn't going to sell.



#560 Jackerbie

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Posted 06 May 2021 - 11:31 AM

Maybe they are doing the math and figuring that expensive office space isn't going to sell.


It's not their first residential venture, just the first on the island. Their new offices in Calgary and Vancouver both have significant residential components.

You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



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