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PROPOSED
TELUS Ocean
Uses: office, commercial
Address: 767 Douglas Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 10
The Apex Site property on Douglas Street at Humboldt Street in downtown Victoria, also known as the 'Budget Lo... (view full profile)
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[Downtown] TELUS Ocean - Apex Site | TELUS and Aryze Developments | Proposed


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#241 Mike K.

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 03:52 PM

If you rezone/subdivide/vary a parcel and secure a 100% density uplift on that land, you owe the City of Victoria 75% of the value uplift of the land post-approvals. Is that not how it works?

For added height developers can also be required to contribute to funds or provide additional amenities as the density is not the only valuable pursuit, as height on its own can be valuable, too (ie a unit on the 10th floor will be cheaper to buy/lease than a unit on the 15th). But on the flip side, is it economical to build at 15-storeys, does it need to be 13 or 17 to make sense? That sort of thing also impacts what developers pursue.

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#242 spanky123

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 04:00 PM

If you rezone/subdivide/vary a parcel and secure a 100% density uplift on that land, you owe the City of Victoria 75% of the value uplift of the land post-approvals. Is that not how it works?

For added height developers can also be required to contribute to funds or provide additional amenities as the density is not the only valuable pursuit, as height on its own can be valuable, too (ie a unit on the 10th floor will be cheaper to buy/lease than a unit on the 15th). But on the flip side, is it economical to build at 15-storeys, does it need to be 13 or 17 to make sense? That sort of thing also impacts what developers pursue.

 

That is how it is supposed to work but no developer (AFAIK) has ever paid the fees. They have argued (successfully) that increasing the density does not increase the value because the value of the land is already based on the assumption that the density uplift can be obtained!

 

This is the primary argument that the DRA and others have made against the current amenities practices. The City has been getting next to nothing for bonus density or zoning. 


Edited by spanky123, 09 June 2020 - 04:01 PM.


#243 Jackerbie

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 04:14 PM

I am assuming that the purpose of adding floors is to get additional square feet and that a building with 50% more floors could have 50% more square feet. If that is an incorrect assumption then obviously my comments don't make sense.

 

Depends on the proposal. Sometimes extra height is requested to add floor area, other times it is requested to have a more slim tower form. The later was the case when HP1 was looking for extra height, but the variance request was ultimately withdrawn I think? The result is the nice but boxy tower we see today.


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#244 Mike K.

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 06:28 PM

That is how it is supposed to work but no developer (AFAIK) has ever paid the fees. They have argued (successfully) that increasing the density does not increase the value because the value of the land is already based on the assumption that the density uplift can be obtained!

This is the primary argument that the DRA and others have made against the current amenities practices. The City has been getting next to nothing for bonus density or zoning.


Aren’t the amounts described in the approvals documents? I thought they were.

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#245 G-Man

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Posted 11 June 2020 - 12:35 PM

And how density work over taller buildings is clearly laid out in the OCP. The city gets more money based on increased density here and so if they add height, they can either inset the floors or they add square footage and pay for it as per the agreement. 


Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

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#246 spanky123

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Posted 11 June 2020 - 01:11 PM

And how density work over taller buildings is clearly laid out in the OCP. The city gets more money based on increased density here and so if they add height, they can either inset the floors or they add square footage and pay for it as per the agreement. 

 

Accept that they don't. As I mentioned what happens is that the developer gets an opinion that the value of the property has not increased with the added density so therefore they do not have to pay anything. The circular argument is that the value of the bonus density is already factored into the price of the land since the City almost always grants the bonus density without any extra fees.

 

If you don't believe me, this was covered in depth with Ian and the Mayor on the 2nd to last 29er radio podcast. The Mayor admitted that the City has received next to nothing from developers for bonus density despite the 75% requirement.


Edited by spanky123, 11 June 2020 - 01:15 PM.


#247 Mike K.

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Posted 30 June 2020 - 09:13 PM

The website has been updated and gives us a glimpse of a design direction in a sketch: https://www.telusocean.com

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#248 Nparker

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Posted 30 June 2020 - 10:02 PM

The website has been updated and gives us a glimpse of a design direction in a sketch: https://www.telusocean.com

None of the sales job on that website was terribly enlightening, and this sketch leaves a lot to the imagination.

ocean.JPG



#249 Rob Randall

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 07:29 AM

I was hoping for a tall skinny crystal shard, like an upside down chandelier.

 

But I think this is going to be a glassy blue slice of cake. Like if you took the Atrium building and sliced it in half diagonally.

 

It would be great to have a large public area that could pull off some conventioneers so they could sit down and chat over coffee. Telus could display their latest toys. I remember paying my phone bill at the BC Tel office on Yates and they'd have all the latest land line corded phones on display. I think in this age when so many companies are little more than a fancy website to have an attractive physical space in a prime location that has a strong association with their services.


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#250 Mike K.

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 07:40 AM

I thought this line was interesting:

... aligning closely with the TELUS Ocean proposal that intends to attract and retain talent locally by creating over 250 high-value tech jobs.


So these are an additional 250 local jobs, then?

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#251 Mike K.

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 07:42 AM

Oh, and here’s the architectural firm!:

Diamond Schmitt Architects

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#252 spanky123

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 11:08 AM

I thought this line was interesting:


So these are an additional 250 local jobs, then?

 

From what I understood, Telus is relocating the 250 staff it already has in various buildings downtown to this new central office. I don't think that they are adding another 250 positions although I believe most of the roles are in customer service for Telus health and that could be expanding due to covid.



#253 johnk2

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 02:43 PM

He has a track record

 

 

Jack Diamond has practiced architecture since 1968 Previous work includes the Four Seasons Centre for the Performing Arts in Toronto, the New Mariinsky Theatre in St. Petersburg, Russia, the Israeli Foreign Ministry, Southbrook Winery in Niagara, Ontario, and the Life Sciences Complex at McGill University in Montreal. A current project, Buddy Holly Hall of Performing Arts & Sciences opens in Texas in 2020.

He is a Royal Architectural Institute of Canada Gold Medalist and an Honourary Fellow of the American Institute of Architects. He is a member of the Order of Ontario and an Officer of the Order of Canada.

 

Edited by johnk2, 01 July 2020 - 02:44 PM.


#254 Rob Randall

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 03:09 PM

I think this would be Diamond's first Victoria project but he is very familiar with this city. His anti-sprawl endorsement of urban densification bought him a big fan in the form of Pam Madoff. Diamond has lectured and written about several Victoria topics including the harbour, CRD, urban sprawl and building density around transit hubs.


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#255 Mike K.

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 04:23 PM

Rob, you’re right! Madoff has indeed spoken about Diamond on a few occasions at council meetings, if memory serves correct.

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#256 Jackerbie

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 05:57 PM

None of the sales job on that website was terribly enlightening, and this sketch leaves a lot to the imagination.
ocean.JPG

The sketch looks very much like the prow of a boat

Edited by Jackerbie, 01 July 2020 - 05:57 PM.


#257 Nparker

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 08:25 PM

Or a leaf, or a child's free association scribbling. In any case, I was not inspired.

#258 GreenBC

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Posted Yesterday, 11:42 AM

TELUS Ocean Application Brief 1.0. I have a 61 page pdf file but it is 45MB so I have posted only 6 jpg.

Attached Images

  • TELUS Ocean Application Brief 1.0_Page_23.jpg
  • TELUS Ocean Application Brief 1.0_Page_24.jpg
  • TELUS Ocean Application Brief 1.0_Page_26.jpg
  • TELUS Ocean Application Brief 1.0_Page_35.jpg
  • TELUS Ocean Application Brief 1.0_Page_50.jpg
  • TELUS Ocean Application Brief 1.0_Page_55.jpg
  • TELUS Ocean Application Brief 1.0_Page_56.jpg

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#259 RFS

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Posted Yesterday, 11:46 AM

Too short
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#260 aastra

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Posted Yesterday, 12:11 PM

Too wide.



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