830 replies to this topic

[PPPdev]

You’d be surprised by the suggestions put forward. It’s supposed to be iconic but blend it. More solid to void ratio to reflect, what? The Empress? Double Tree? Stepped like the Falls? This is the problem with last to the party sites, the building becomes everything to everybody and in the process the building becomes traditional, Victoria: meh

Aastra: the core is at that back SE corner hence no windows

[Mike K.]

It's transitional in that it's just a few hundred metres from the the Fairfield/James Bay area containing more toned down residential/park/office uses compared with the bustling Government/Humboldt area.

It’s transitional because it’s the literal entrance to downtown.

Is there even a downtown site that isn’t a few hundred meters from toned down residential/park/office uses?

There’s far too much esoteric reasoning being lobbed here but the guidance given is pretty clear: clean up the mess jutting out over the Empress.

[aastra]

"...glass clad buildings... often symbolize a lack of sustainability."

 

I feel like this kind of weasel speech is inserted on purpose. It's like a test to see if anyone will notice. Can I really believe the CoV is now stewing about the symbolic meaning that very broad categorizations ("glass clad buildings") may or may not have to some observers... sometimes?

 

For decades we were trained to believe "concrete buildings" were bad, and now we're being trained to believe "glass clad buildings" are bad. It's going to be spandrel city eventually.

 

Check this out:

 

 

This is particularly true for a predominantly west facing building.

...a higher wall to window ratio and/or introduction of screens and some form of solar shading.

 

How about for a west-facing building that happens to be standing in the shadow of the frickin' Empress Hotel every summer afternoon and evening? (and at other times, too)

 

Not to mention the tall towers directly east of this site, Aria directly southeast, and Concert's retirement residence just a block south.

 

Shadowing effects are worthy of endless debate for every little project, but now we're acting like shadowing is maybe not such a big deal after all when the district in question already contains several extremely large and/or tall buildings? If ever there was a site where energy-efficiency concerns related to glazing should get a pass, methinks this would be it.

[Victoria Watcher]

You’d be surprised by the suggestions put forward. It’s supposed to be iconic but blend it. More solid to void ratio to reflect, what? The Empress? Double Tree? Stepped like the Falls? This is the problem with last to the party sites, the building becomes everything to everybody and in the process the building becomes traditional, Victoria: meh

 

 

yup.  i feel your pain.

[spanky123]

It's very shiny.

 

May be a small point but it looks like a lane of traffic in each direction has been lost by the crosswalk!

[Brantastic]

I think the updated design is great, but I really, really wish the big TELUS logo wasn't facing onto Douglas at the very top of the building. The thought of having a giant telecom brand logo hovering above the Empress when viewed from across the harbour is kind of depressing...

[Jackerbie]

I think the updated design is great, but I really, really wish the big TELUS logo wasn't facing onto Douglas at the very top of the building. The thought of having a giant telecom brand logo hovering above the Empress when viewed from across the harbour is kind of depressing...

 

Good news, it was moved!

[m3m]

I think the updated design is great, but I really, really wish the big TELUS logo wasn't facing onto Douglas at the very top of the building. The thought of having a giant telecom brand logo hovering above the Empress when viewed from across the harbour is kind of depressing...

 

Do the Marriott and Hilton brand logos bother you now?  They are barely noticeable from anywhere on the inner harbour and are higher in elevation than the Telus logo will be. 

 

[Promontory Kingpin]

What ever happened to condos being apart of this project? I recall that being mentioned back in 17’

[zoomer]

The site is one of the most challenging you could pick for a signature office tower - and I think we’re seeing the result of that now. It’s really better suited for retail and hotel/condo.

Combined with the reduced demand for office space (perhaps short term) I wouldn’t be surprised if Telus steps away from completing the purchase as per the agreement with the city.

https://www.victoria...e-downtown.html

“June 2, 2020: TELUS has agreed to purchase the property from the City of Victoria for a price of $8.1 million, plus up to an additional $1.1 million purchase price adjustment depending on the final proposal submitted and approved as part of the rezoning process. Telus and the City of Victoria will share in the environmental and geotechnical costs to remediate the site, with the City contributing $2.37 million towards its portion of these costs. In exchange for the City’s contribution, TELUS will assume all liability and responsibility for the environmental remediation of the site.

The proceeds from the sale will be held in the City’s Tax Sale Lands Reserve and will be used to fund actions in Victoria’s Strategic Plan, including acquiring land for affordable housing. In addition, this all-commercial development will provide significant annual property tax revenue to the City to help fund City programs and services including, among other things, improvements to the downtown public realm allocated through the City’s annual budget process.

The sale of the property is subject to TELUS applying for rezoning within 18 months of executing the agreement, and TELUS then successfully bringing the TELUS Oceanproject through the City’s formal land use approval process and advancing it to the permitting stage within specific periods of time.”

[Mike K.]

Office space demand will be just fine in Class A inventory. It’s the Class C and B stuff that’s going to struggle over the near term but we might actually see more residential conversions there. Institutional leaseholders need office space, and these bigger players are well financed.

Let’s keep in mind that this project won’t be approved until later this year at the earliest, and it’ll be a three year build from excavation to occupancy. If we’re not doing better economically by 2025 I don’t think office vacancy rates are going to be our biggest problem.

[zoomer]

It’s transitional because it’s the literal entrance to downtown.

There’s far too much esoteric reasoning being lobbed here but the guidance given is pretty clear: clean up the mess jutting out over the Empress.

I don’t see this as the entrance to downtown, to me it’s the end of the road, it’s literally the very tip/end of Vancouver Island (well, almost). To me the entrance to downtown would be starting around Bay or even Hillside on Douglas, Government or Blanshard, or coming down Pandora or Yates street. At least that’s where I’d place my cardboard ‘Welcome to Downtown’ signs. Otherwise the site borders James Bay and a small portion of the Fairfield neighbourhood (in terms of foot of vehicle traffic coming through this block of Douglas). Passengers coming off the cruise ships or Coho.. well, I’d say they’re already downtown by the time they get to this area. Minor and irrelevant point, but I’ve heard that mentioned before, being the entrance, while I see it as the terminus.

[Mike K.]

Can’t you have more than one entrance?

[Nparker]

Can’t you have more than one entrance?

Oh man, I am just not going to touch this remark.

[zoomer]

There’s far too much esoteric reasoning being lobbed here but the guidance given is pretty clear: clean up the mess jutting out over the Empress.

That’s not the city’s guidance, it’s the developer’s spin on it.

The city doesn’t want Telus to be visible AT ALL above the Empress. From page 15: “the new building should not be visible above the roofline of the Empress when viewed from Inner Harbour Area, particularly the walkway around the Steamship Terminal, or the lawn of the Legislature.”

Below is the developers’s response - and introducing the argument that where it is visible that is beneficial, providing a more unified backdrop.

This makes it extremely difficult for Telus to fit a signature office building with such constraints on a lot that is already challenging. I’d rather have a backdrop of more dramatic and taller buildings clearly visible behind the Empress vs one unified someone blurry, glassy backdrop that reflects clouds and the Empress, thus appearing to meld into the hotel. If I had been away from the city for several years, coming back into Victoria on the Coho I’d think “wow, looks like they expanded the conference centre behind the Empress”.

Attached Images

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Edited by zoomer, 20 January 2021 - 05:16 PM.

[Mike K.]

I dunno. What do we call the tip of Manhattan? The exit?

Is Vancouver’s Coal Harbour waterfront the “back” of downtown with the entrance on Granville?

I think it’s fair to say the entrance is wherever you enter downtown.

[zoomer]

Can’t you have more than one entrance?

Yes, several entrances, such as heading south, heading west, but does anyone really enter downtown from James Bay? At most you could say it’s a back door entrance, not a real entrance, something maybe you slip quietly into, but you certainly don’t expect fanfare, a marching band, or a big archway welcome sign. Maybe that’s just me though..

[Victoria Watcher]

That’s not the city’s guidance, it’s the developer’s spin on it.

The city doesn’t want Telus to be visible AT ALL above the Empress. From page 15: “the new building should not be visible above the roofline of the Empress when viewed from Inner Harbour Area, particularly the walkway around the Steamship Terminal, or the lawn of the Legislature.”

Below is the developers’s response - and introducing the argument that where it is visible that is beneficial, providing a more unified backdrop.

This makes it extremely difficult for Telus to fit a signature office building with such constraints on a lot that is already challenging. I’d rather have a backdrop of more dramatic and taller buildings clearly visible behind the Empress vs one unified someone blurry, glassy backdrop that reflects clouds and the Empress, thus appearing to meld into the hotel. If I had been away from the city for several years, coming back into Victoria on the Coho I’d think “wow, looks like they expanded the conference centre behind the Empress”.

 

if the empress hotel was proposed today it would be laughed out of town.  look at the northern junk trials.

 

so why now are we "protecting" the view of it?  plus how are we protecting it - it's in front of everything else.

[zoomer]

We could block off Government street in front of the Empress and build a new more beautiful hotel that better represents the vision of city council today and hides our colonial settler past? Maybe we call it the Portland Hotel?

[Mike K.]

^ ^ Is this a serious question or are you at a happy hour somewhere with Randall?