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PROPOSED
TELUS Ocean
Uses: office, commercial
Address: 767 Douglas Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 10
The Apex Site property on Douglas Street at Humboldt Street in downtown Victoria, also known as the 'Budget Lo... (view full profile)
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[Downtown] TELUS Ocean - Apex Site | TELUS and Aryze Developments | Proposed


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#421 Jackerbie

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 05:31 PM

Office space demand will be just fine in Class A inventory. It’s the Class C and B stuff that’s going to struggle over the near term but we might actually see more residential conversions there. Institutional leaseholders need office space, and these bigger players are well financed.

Let’s keep in mind that this project won’t be approved until later this year at the earliest, and it’ll be a three year build from excavation to occupancy. If we’re not doing better economically by 2025 I don’t think office vacancy rates are going to be our biggest problem.


Also keep in mind that consolidating space downtown opens up their other properties for redevelopment (I'm looking at you, Quadra and McKenzie)
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#422 Mike K.

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 05:35 PM

It’s funny, because for my entire life I’ve thought of the entrance to downtown at Belleville as the most dramatic entrance, where the division between the city centre and the rest of Victoria was the most evident. Tall buildings, the Empress, and an incline towards office buildings/residential towers as far as the eye could see.

But here I’m being told it’s the back door? I’m so perplexed by this. Does everyone else see the Belleville border as ho-hum, and I’m the odd one out?
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#423 Nparker

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 06:03 PM

I am not sure why a so-called "signature" building is being made to hide itself behind another.



#424 PPPdev

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 07:15 PM

I am not sure why a so-called "signature" building is being made to hide itself behind another.

 

I wake up every morning and ask myself this same question.

 

It's kind of fun to read all the random conspiracy theories flying around here  :muching_out:


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#425 aastra

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 08:21 AM

 

Can’t you have more than one entrance?

 

 

Oh man, I am just not going to touch this remark.

 

That's Mike K. for you. He likes to make an entrance.

 

(Mods: maybe this thread should have an entrance fee? Either that or an entrance exam.)


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#426 spanky123

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 09:25 AM

Office space demand will be just fine in Class A inventory. It’s the Class C and B stuff that’s going to struggle over the near term but we might actually see more residential conversions there. Institutional leaseholders need office space, and these bigger players are well financed.

 

There are different types of office spaces and different types of office users. I think that if the market for class A was there then the Jawls would never have walked away from this deal (and that was before covid).

 

From what I understand, the Telus building is supposed to become part of some tech hub. Tech office use will be the last to recover (if it does) in my opinion. I am hearing of dozens of downtown tech companies either giving up space, looking to sublet their space or downsizing substantially. Entire building are now sitting empty or nearly empty. Most of the large companies are owned by out of town corporates and those satellite offices are going to stay fully remote. Many of the others have been working remotely for nearly a year and they have either figured it out or they haven't. According to Viatec, the tech industry is Victoria's largest employer so the impact will not be trivial.



#427 Jackerbie

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 09:35 AM

There are different types of office spaces and different types of office users. I think that if the market for class A was there then the Jawls would never have walked away from this deal (and that was before covid).

 

From what I understand, the Telus building is supposed to become part of some tech hub. Tech office use will be the last to recover (if it does) in my opinion. I am hearing of dozens of downtown tech companies either giving up space, looking to sublet their space or downsizing substantially. Entire building are now sitting empty or nearly empty. Most of the large companies are owned by out of town corporates and those satellite offices are going to stay fully remote. Many of the others have been working remotely for nearly a year and they have either figured it out or they haven't. According to Viatec, the tech industry is Victoria's largest employer so the impact will not be trivial.

 

Will be interesting to see the differences in recovery between Victoria and the lower mainland. The sheer amount of tech-oriented office space in the pipeline here (Metro Van) is ludicrous. Concord has 300,000 sq. ft. proposed in the "Quantum Park" development, and I'm currently involved in a 1.6 million sq. ft. proposal in Richmond...


Edited by Jackerbie, 21 January 2021 - 09:42 AM.


#428 Mike K.

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 10:23 AM

It's sounding like some big tech names are also interested in making the jump to Victoria. Much, much cheaper lease rates and (relatively) cheaper real-estate.


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#429 AllseeingEye

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 10:31 AM

Well if any business is interested in prime d/t office space my wife's New West-based tech firm originally leased then decided against expanding to an entire floor they completely renovated and updated and wired to go on the second floor of their building. Room for about 40 staff. Inquire within, heh. 

 

Our firm, which occupies 5 leased spaces in the d/t core, with about 5-600 employees altogether, received our latest corporate Covid Update yesterday and very clearly we aren't headed back to our offices any time soon....



#430 spanky123

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 10:56 AM

It's sounding like some big tech names are also interested in making the jump to Victoria. Much, much cheaper lease rates and (relatively) cheaper real-estate.

 

The only big name tech firms in Victoria are those who acquired businesses here. Stories about firms moving to Victoria have been rumored for 2 decades and always turn out to be hype and/or short lived.

 

At the end of the day, leasing costs are generally a small portion of the overall costs. A firm with 100 employees may pay $20K a month to lease their space but is probably paying $600K+ a month in employee and overhead costs.


Edited by spanky123, 21 January 2021 - 10:57 AM.


#431 Mike K.

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 11:02 AM

PRA has been here for two decades, and I'm sure there are others like them which keep a low profile.


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#432 Kapten Kapsell

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 11:25 AM

I anticipate Amazon will be adding to its local offices over the next few years, they do have a lot of space leased at the redevelopment of the former post office in downtown Vancouver (being developed by QuadReal) but I suspect you will see a satellite, so to speak, added here as well....



#433 spanky123

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 11:29 AM

PRA has been here for two decades, and I'm sure there are others like them which keep a low profile.

 

Yep, they purchased a Victoria company in 2002.



#434 spanky123

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 11:30 AM

I anticipate Amazon will be adding to its local offices over the next few years, they do have a lot of space leased at the redevelopment of the former post office in downtown Vancouver (being developed by QuadReal) but I suspect you will see a satellite, so to speak, added here as well....

 

Amazon purchased Abebooks. From what I know, they have never expanded the Victoria office to include any other services or staff beyond that.


Edited by spanky123, 21 January 2021 - 11:30 AM.


#435 Mike K.

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 11:31 AM

Amazon, of course, is already here with AbeBooks. Coincidentally PRA and Abe share the same office building in Vic West.


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#436 Jackerbie

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 11:31 AM

I anticipate Amazon will be adding to its local offices over the next few years, they do have a lot of space leased at the redevelopment of the former post office in downtown Vancouver (being developed by QuadReal) but I suspect you will see a satellite, so to speak, added here as well....

 

I wouldn't count on it. They have 350,000 sq. ft. of space in three buildings already, and will have 1 million sq. ft. in The Post redevelopment (they're taking 100% of the office space there)



#437 Mike K.

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 11:31 AM

Ah, we cross-posted.


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#438 AllseeingEye

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 06:38 PM

The only big name tech firms in Victoria are those who acquired businesses here. Stories about firms moving to Victoria have been rumored for 2 decades and always turn out to be hype and/or short lived.

 

At the end of the day, leasing costs are generally a small portion of the overall costs. A firm with 100 employees may pay $20K a month to lease their space but is probably paying $600K+ a month in employee and overhead costs.

 

 

Yeah these stories have been around forever it seems.

 

I remember when I worked at Seagate in Vancouver and coming back for a visit to Victoria in about 1998-9; at the time SG was a tech darling with about 160,000 employees globally including at one site in Malaysia that had more staff on the shift change than most Canadian towns had population.

 

I sit down at a bar (I think it was Bart's) with friends and some guy notices my SG golf shirt and asks me about some wild rumor that SG was planning a satellite office here. "??????" says I. "Zero and none" was my response although truthfully had never heard it myself. Needless to say at that time that firm would never consider coming to a small market like this. Not sure about the attitudes of younger tech workers today but if Vancouver staff then even had a sniff of such a thing at the time it would've caused a minor civil war. The company and staff were based in a large cosmopolitan metro region for a reason - because it offered a multitude of things a market like Victoria couldn't.

 

That said that was all 20+ years ago and $$$ does talk and attitudes do change; if an org could truly save money on office space I'm sure they'd have to look at it but from a staff/cost of living standpoint not sure there is that much advantage or difference anymore in terms of Victoria accommodations/rents etc.

 

It would ultimately depend on the IT vertical and especially on the client/market: in BC if the client is 'government' then it makes perfect sense to be Victoria, maybe even headquartered here. We are. CGI, Fujitsu, Deloitte and NTT all are (albeit those are all satellite offices) and for the same reason.


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#439 Citified.ca

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Posted 26 January 2021 - 10:50 AM

Plans for downtown Victoria's $100 million Telus Ocean tower tweaked as approvals process continues


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