60 replies to this topic

[G-Man]

Like all of those strict rules imposed on Manhattan?

I think the city actively makes sure that when people buy in a city they know they are in a city. There was quite a bit of discussion regarding this at the Falls hearing. People in Songhees can complain all they want about the Seaplanes but it all falls back on the fact that they signed that piece of paper acknowledging they live next to a working harbour that is sometimes noisy.

Traffic Calming does not stop you from coming downtown it just means that you can't drive into town at 60 kms an hour and park right outside your destination. Well really you couldn't do that before anyways.

I am just not buying that the minute amount of traffic calming the city is doing is going to stop people from driving into town. If people like the stores downtown and they want to drive I would estimate a trip from Langford and back will be increased by about 30 seconds by all the traffic calming that was done on Douglas Street almost 10 years ago. However the benefit to those pedestrians along Douglas Street due to the wwider sidewalks is much larger and I would argue increased the business to store owners along this street.

Apart from the Douglas Street measures I cannot see how any other traffic calming the City has done would effect anyone's shopping habits if you are inconvenienced by a 30 second increase in a trip than I would imagine that by just the increase in population in the city these same people would have already shifted their shopping habits.

[gumgum]

We were talking about rithet on the other forum just yesterday. How...strange.
I think it was swimmer_or_sinker that mentioned that it used to be part of a trolley line or something, that's why it's so huge.
I'm convinced, being that it's JB, a community garden covering half the street would be ideal.
North of Simcoe on St Laurence is wide like that too.

My two cents about calming - it's dependent on a lot of factors, yet i beleive that unless it's a designated arterial rd, the the benefits and concerns of the residences in the immediate area should prevail over the concerns of those who pass through in their cars.
Arterials are another story - not fully against it because I can think of good benefits for it other than calming: added bike lanes, additional parking (which, like it is not, should be a priority d/t.) etc...

[Lover Fighter]

Hah, it's funny you should mention that VHF, I just brought up Rithet Street a day or 2 ago on SSP.

Speaking of that area of James Bay actually, I made a couple of observations about the planning of the roads around Beckley Manor:
1) I don't have a picture of it, but Rithet St. (a 'tiny' road that runs behind the Beckley Manor I think, between Menzies & S. Turner) is extraordinarily wide. It looks so out of place, they could probably place 6 lanes on it without having to widen it at all. It would be perfect as a connector between the cruise ship terminal (and whatever is subsequently built on that site) and Douglas Street, that is, if it wasn't blocked off by a sea of heritage homes at both ends.
2) Speaking of those heritage homes, I've now fallen in love with a tiny dead-end street running off Dallas, just a block away, called "Lewis Street". The street is pretty much the exact opposite of what Rithet Street is. That is, it is narrow, and more importantly, the old houses are extremely close to the street. Disregarding the fact the houses don't connect with each other, it's the closest I've seen to genuine row houses in Victoria!!

I'm still not convinced it is wide because of the street-cars though... according to my old map the #3 street-car ran along Niagara and ended at Douglas by the old Beacon Hill school.


Anyways, back on topic... I'm not a 'car-lover', in fact I bike and bus everywhere I go, but I'm not a supporter of traffic calming either. At least not as drastically as Victoria is doing it in some places.

[Scaper]

I had to pick up some cheques today from Fort and Oakbay.

They have reduced the entire length of traffic to one lane. Before it was four lanes until you passed OAk Bay Rec.

Now when a bus pulls over to the side of the road at a bus stop...you guessed it, traffic completely stops. This is assinine...(sp?) completely retarded!

I was so frustrated. They took away the three temperary parking units as the enlarged the sidewalks so wide I could drive a semi down it. Yeah I know those thousands of Oakbay Victoria Shoppers need that extra sidewalk for those mad shopping rushes.

I just can't belief it. GRRRR!!!

[aastra]

I don't see the sense in closing lanes/streets in residential areas of Victoria or Oak Bay that don't have much auto traffic to begin with. In most cases it just creates inconvenience, while doing nothing to actually "calm" traffic.

Scaper's example there with the bus would piss a lot of people off.

The thing that bugs me about the neighbourhood traffic circles is this: I've seen plenty of people race through them without so much as a look. They're going as fast as before, if not faster, only now they're not being careful at all...because it's a traffic circle instead of an open intersection.

[DelsterX]

Only in Victoria do they try to solve congestion by narrowing the streets :roll: . I am in favour of reinstating the traffic circle at Government, Douglas and Hillside.

[Holden West]

If widening the streets solved congestion Los Angeles would be smooth sailing.

[mikedw]

Okay, I know this had been done to death and stuff, but I think it's viable for some of the new people to talk about.

Anyway, there has been a rash of traffic calming on Victoria streets. Right now in the area of town that I live in, they're reducing the number of lanes on Fort Street from 2 in each direction to 1 in each direction. The backups are going to be really bad as I have walked Fort around 8 and it being backed up due to it. The other one is on Richmond Avenue around Royal Jubilee. Can someone tell me WHY they did that? I bet it would be a pain in the ass if you needed to get to emergency from some of the side streets.

I know I don't drive, but I can see the stupidity in the matter. What next? Saanich putting in stupid islands and reducing the lanes on Shelbourne or MacKenzie??!

I call it "traffic crippling"
I see the approach as one where it frustrates motorists into parking their car. The same thing is rife up at UVic: by turning parking spaces into buildings they are doing the same trip and frustrating people into not bringing their cars to campus.
It was summed up best in the movie, "Singles": people like their cars. If used smart, they can be a net benefit. What makes a bigger foot print in traffic? An SUV with one driver and one destination; or a bus with one driver and two passengers and the bus is in perpetual motion throughout the city. Ride the evening Cook-Maplewood. You'll get to know the driver pretty well.
Traffic crippling is a mistake. You need to get a car on the road easily, get it to its destination fast, then park it. What makes more greenhouse gases? A car that spend 40 min. on the road in amongst congestion and circling for parking; or a car that spends 20 min. on the road that didn't encounter congestion?

The upswing in traffic crippling and road rage and other side effects (respiratory illness, longer periods out of the house) go hand-in-hand.

I follow a model that I am lucky to enjoy. I work at home for half of the week. On the remaining days, I will walk or bus into town. Walking is great: it doesn't cost more than a pair of shoes.

I think we have to question when our work and our homes lie 20km away from each other.

[mikedw]

I don't see the sense in closing lanes/streets in residential areas of Victoria or Oak Bay that don't have much auto traffic to begin with. In most cases it just creates inconvenience, while doing nothing to actually "calm" traffic.

Scaper's example there with the bus would piss a lot of people off.

The thing that bugs me about the neighbourhood traffic circles is this: I've seen plenty of people race through them without so much as a look. They're going as fast as before, if not faster, only now they're not being careful at all...because it's a traffic circle instead of an open intersection.

I have to think that the Victoria City is honestly feaful of traffic lights. We have a mishmash of clogged main streets and blocked off side streets. What if some of those side streets were turned into "pressure valve" streets: gated by traffic lights and open as short-cuts.
Then, the nimbys would ***** that they're seeing more traffic on their streets. You're living a block from Cook (or Hillside or Quadra or Yates), didn't you know there was traffic?
I am reminded on one trip to a Victoria City Council session and most of the neighbourhood associations presentations were for ways to block off their streets.

[G-Man]

I agree with your last statement. That is the major problem. We need to stop allowing the clear cut of forests to further expand our suburbs.

As a weekday pedestrian though (To and From work) I appreciate the large traffic bulbs and numerous crosswalks that are downtown. This certainly makes my walk to work much more enjoyable. I guess I see traffic calming as sort of a legitimate punishment for those that feel the need to drive everywhere whether they need to or not.

I believe it was you Mike that made the suggestion of parkades at Mayfair complemented by BRT or LRT into downtown and I truly think that is a great option for those that think they need their car.

[mikedw]

I believe it was you Mike that made the suggestion of parkades at Mayfair complemented by BRT or LRT into downtown and I truly think that is a great option for those that think they need their car.

That was me. My thinking: if you need your car, fine, but you're going to park it. Whether its a five minute walk or a five minute bus ride shouldn't matter alot-- a least the bus will be dry in the rain and shaded in the sun.

For us, it's rare that our car has one occupant. Today is a great example: dropped off my daughter; my wife dropped me off it town; she continued to work. This evening, the same thing will run in reverse. At her end: cheap parking and greatest distance travelled. On days that she doesn't drive me, she drives my niece to her school a block from her work.

[Number Six]

There were significant traffic calming initiatives being discussed for the Cook St. village (part of a boulevarding project) last year but I've not heard anything since then ... has anyone else?

I gave up my car 11 years ago and have walked, biked and bused it ever since. If narrowing streets in certain pedistrian areas will increase safety and vibrancy I'm all for it. The car has dominated for long enough ... it has its place, it just needs to be put there.

[FunkyMunky]

I am reminded on one trip to a Victoria City Council session and most of the neighbourhood associations presentations were for ways to block off their streets.

As someone who as done more than my fare share of walking, running, cycling and driving around this town, I have to say traffic calming doesn't impress me. If we're talking about adding refuges in the centre of a road to help pedestrians make it across the road or creating cycling lane and bike boxes at intersections, I'm cool with that. But often it seems these things are done in a half-assed fashion to appease local warlords without any concern for the greater good.

Several years ago, they closed a number of streets between Fort/Richmond and Begbie/Shelbourne to through traffic. The only justification for this was that the locals living on the side streets didn't want the traffic passing through their neighbourhood (I thought those were public roads?).

This forces all the traffic to travel along Fort and north on Richmond Road to Bay and then double-back one block to Shelbourne. If you are unfortunate enough to try to drive that one block of Bay at about 3 PM on Wednesdays when the garbage truck leisurely travels from house to house and stops in the single lane to pick-up garage, then you're not going any where any time soon. This has been made even worst this past summer with the work at Bowker Creek which has kept the traffic from moving up Richmond. I'm sure the ambulances that travel this way to the hospital have had difficulty with this set-up. The only people who benefit from this arrangement are a handful of residents on side streets.

The recent screwing around with the lanes in the 1600 and 1700 blocks of Fort Street isn't a great success either. It alternates between one lane and two lanes so now you have to deal with people in the back trying to race-up and get in front of you as the double lanes narrow down into a single lane (I hate this little game).

Added to this are the wandering lanes which appear to have been laid out by a drunk. Starting at Richmond Avenue and heading towards downtown, the double lane section that has a definite left-hand hook to it suddenly requires you to swing right as the lanes merge so that you can clear the new refuge in the centre of the road (opposite Christie's Carriage House which is now almost impossible to get to unless you come from downtown). Since I'm looking over my shoulder to avoid colliding with the previously mentioned queue jumpers in the outside lane, the sudden tack to the right is not welcomed. Surely they could have improved the flow and safety by making the lanes a little more straight.

One of the problems is there is no overall plan for traffic in the region (Can I say the A-word?). I live near Oak Bay High so one of the few efficient routes for people on this end of town to get to Douglas or Blanshard northbound is to travel down Fort, up Richmond and then west on Bay. The blocking of the side roads between Fort/Richmond and Begbie/Shelbourne has an impact on my travel plans but I don't get a say because I don't live in the City of Victoria.

Even if these road changes don't add huge amounts of travel time, they add greatly to the frustration of drivers and negatively impact the efficiency of business. A frustrated driver is a bad driver.

[G-Man]

I think that the example you give was one that Victoria Council learned from. I mean half of those roads have been reopened. I understand the frustration of the homeowners as well though. i live on a street that is constantly used as a traffic bypass. Still whether that should be the sole reason for closing a road I don't think so. If roads are closed than they should give back to the community turn the road into a park.

[Galvanized]

^I don't think you could say those streets were actually re-opened per say. The only street that was actually re-opened was Fern St. They should have re-opened Hautain St as well, instead the City of Victoria put in these traffic islands that allow cars to turn right in and out of Haultain between Richmond and Shelbourne. Richmond is particularly bad as these islands have pushed traffic to the outer edges of the road on the Saanich side that wasn't designed for it causing conflict with pedestrians, cyclists and buses pulling in and out of stops. The same problem exsists with Kings Rd where just north of it a cyclist was killed. These are perfect examples of the poor regional planning FunkyMunky was refering to. If it were one municipalty then those of us in the Saanich panhandle would have had a say in these street closures that cut off access to our neighbourhood.

[FunkyMunky]

Here is an article about adding bike lanes to Henderson Road in Oak Bay. Don't let the odd story title throw you; the original article jammed a couple of unrelated concepts together into a single story but you can read the full story by following the Oak Bay News [url=http://www.oakbaynews.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=23&cat=23&id=767597&more=:bfdd2]link[/url:bfdd2].

Oak Bay News[/url:bfdd2]]Oak Bay embarrassed by Uplands sewage

By Erin Kelley-Gedischk
Nov 08 2006

...In addition to a lack of funds, Oak Bay is stalling on a plan for bike lanes because of residents' concern about losing parking in front of their homes.

Cochrane noted the bike lane design will likely include parking bays.

Any official decisions on bike lanes could still take months as the CRD has yet to discuss the topic.

Cyclist Lesley Ewing was thrilled by Oak Bay's plans. Ewing submitted a detailed cycling traffic study and report to council earlier in the year in support of bike lanes.

"Oak Bay council's responsiveness to the community desire for transportation options that favour increased physical activity and improved streetscapes is a good first step," she said. Ewing noted more than 200,000 bike trips are made every year along Henderson Road.

Bike lanes, she added, will increase pedestrian safety by slowing speeding vehicles in a corridor that carries 40 per cent of the volume of the Malahat Highway.

© Copyright 2006 Oak Bay News

[TheVisionary]

One of my friends allowed me to try out his big SUV 4x4. I found street calming obstructions to be no problem at all; I drive right over the concrete. I was only stopped by some obstructions that had sign posts sticking up. My own smaller car can't go over the traffic calming things.

[Walter Moar]

One of my friends allowed me to try out his big SUV 4x4. I found street calming obstructions to be no problem at all; I drive right over the concrete. I was only stopped by some obstructions that had sign posts sticking up. My own smaller car can't go over the traffic calming things.

Some days I wonder if you're Oxford playing a horrible, horrible joke on us.

[Mike K.]

One of my friends allowed me to try out his big SUV 4x4. I found street calming obstructions to be no problem at all; I drive right over the concrete. I was only stopped by some obstructions that had sign posts sticking up. My own smaller car can't go over the traffic calming things.

...and let me guess, you engaged the 4x4 to go over these obstructions?

But the real question is, why would you drive over the traffic calming concrete when you obviously had to slow to a crawl to do it?

[Holden West]

I find that hilariously obnoxious.

Derf, logic and urban SUV use are often mutually exclusive.