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Housing the homeless, a simple, inexpensive plan


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#41 tjv

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 02:03 PM

I am going to say first I am against ANY free housing period in general.  I don't care if you are 65 and decided not save a dime for retirement or are a drug addict or what ever.  NOT MY PROBLEM or any other taxpayers for that matter.  My suggestion is stop by the CRD recycling centre for a free cardboard box

Great initiative but won't fly. Ask anyone on the board or management team at any one of the poverty service providers and they will tell you the same thing. The goal is not to just house the homeless, the goal is to get them homes. The same thing you and I have wherever these folks want to live. Nothing short of that is acceptable and solutions such as what you propose actually work against that goal as it takes the focus off of people living on the streets.

Sorry, but I agree it won't fly.  I wish it would thou

 

The ones that show they can take care of these sleeping units will be first on the list for available better housing.  This is your path in.

 

But this is also for single-employables.  Single-employables are not eligible for any other completely free housing.

 

The biggest advantage of what I'm building here is that they are cheap.    And they are not converted hotel (Super 8, Tally Ho) or senior assisted-living units (Mt. Edwards), that on the whole are the completely wrong -and expensive - way to go.

That's not the issue, these people are guaranteed a unit no matter how badly they trash it,  I've heard from someone at BC Housing that at Johnson St shelter (sorry can't remember the name) that a resident stripped their room of drywall, no one saw them take any drywall out of the room and past any security which means they took the time to crumple all the drywall to basically dust and take it out in their pockets.  Apparently a trash contractor is there every few days removing garbage from Johnson St with full police escort.  I heard that they once took out like 70 TV sets which had magically shown up in only a few days

 

This is reality of what you are dealing with

 

Masonry block walls are a good idea thou

 

Ideally, we'd build it in an aging school gym.  And then build the school a new gym.  Vic High, Esq, High?  The existing Crystal Pool building?  The CRD warehouse in Esqiuimalt?  The warehouse under 3025 Douglas St.?

Are you suggesting that Vic High, Esq High etc have homeless camps built on campus?  I can already see the parents coming to your house with pitchforks and torches

 

CRD warehouse has been converted and rented to a trampoline company



#42 FirstTimeHomeCrier

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 02:45 PM

I am going to say first I am against ANY free housing period in general.  I don't care if you are 65 and decided not save a dime for retirement or are a drug addict or what ever.  NOT MY PROBLEM or any other taxpayers for that matter.  My suggestion is stop by the CRD recycling centre for a free cardboard box

 

 

As a taxpayer and a resident, you will be paying a cost for as long as homelessness exists. If you're not paying for shelter for homeless people, you're paying for:

 

  • Damage to the landscaping in public parks where those cardboard boxes are set up
  • Maintaining public washrooms or hiring folks to remove human waste from public areas
  • Hospital visits for homeless people who encounter medical issues from exposure to the elements
  • Coroner services to remove and properly dispose of human remains when homeless people die in public places
  • Police officers to resolve conflicts related to homelessness and drug use

 

If you want to save money as a taxpayer, the best thing you can do is support holistic solutions to end and prevent homelessness.


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#43 tjv

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 02:53 PM

^are you telling me that if we house every homeless person out there that I won't have to pay a cent for the above.  Not likely, and on top of that now I am paying for heat, maintenance and damage to a building they likely don't give a crap about.  I think its a heck of a lot cheaper to pay for your 5 items

 

And of course more and more and more homeless will arrive from elsewhere and pop out of the woodwork as we build homes for them.

 

Anyway, as promised, here is a floor plan for each of Mt Edwards and Tally Ho

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#44 waiting for janion

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 03:03 PM

Sure you can save money by refusing to house or treat the homeless and/or addicted and/or have mental health issues.  We got to where we are by governments trying to save money.  Just don't be complaining about all the homeless on the streets, in the parks, the human waste, the increased emergency room lines, etc. etc. 

After all, you and the rest of us taxpayers managed to save money.



#45 Bingo

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 03:08 PM

Anyway, as promised, here is a floor plan for each of Mt Edwards and Tally Ho

 

They look like fire traps to me.


Edited by Bingo, 20 November 2017 - 03:08 PM.


#46 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 03:09 PM

We got to where we are by governments trying to save money. 

 

I'm not sure we did.  We got to where we are, with those with addictions and mental health issues by not holding them against their will or forcing medication on them.  We decided, perhaps mistakenly, that we should let those folks cope on their own in the community.


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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#47 waiting for janion

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 03:14 PM

I'm not sure we did.  We got to where we are, with those with addictions and mental health issues by not holding them against their will or forcing medication on them.  We decided, perhaps mistakenly, that we should let those folks cope on their own in the community.

 

I would argue that when we stopped holding people against their will, we didn't add enough community services to help replace the institutionalization services.  Governments pocketed the savings.



#48 Nparker

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 03:39 PM

I would argue that when we stopped holding people against their will, we didn't add enough community services to help replace the institutionalization services...

I think the solution lies somewhere between the forced institutionalization of the past and the laissez-faire system that exists today. There are simply some people who will never be capable of taking care of themselves as independent adults. As a society we have to come to terms with what is the best way to deal with these individuals. Something less than incarceration, but more than self-medicating with street drugs to treat their ills.


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#49 shoeflack

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:02 PM

I think the solution lies somewhere between the forced institutionalization of the past and the laissez-faire system that exists today. There are simply some people who will never be capable of taking care of themselves as independent adults. As a society we have to come to terms with what is the best way to deal with these individuals. Something less than incarceration, but more than self-medicating with street drugs to treat their ills.

 

Not to generalize, but I wonder about this and if it is directly related to the high number of homeless veterans, particularly in the United States but to a lesser extent in Canada. Obviously there are many issues at play there, but the military often targets some of the most marginalized folks, be they low-income, lower intelligence, etc. Once they are free of the "safety net" that is a steady income and place to stay from the military, they end up on the streets. Again, not trying to generalize, but the connection must be relevant in many cases.



#50 Love the rock

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:24 PM

We hold seniors with brain disorders in care against their will .
Why ,because they are deemed unable to care for themselves.
Some spend many waking hours trying to escape on a daily basis.
Sometimes living in small shared rooms with smelly hallways
We can not force them to take medication against their will but
we can keep them and the general public safe .
I don't see to much difference from the wizard in the library who was told not
to wash any more and Gramps who doesn't look after himself and is put in care .
We should be able to house the mentality I'll in a basic facility with rules .
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#51 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:47 PM

Perhaps my plan could be put in place at the Super 8, in the space where they previously had a liquor store and nightclub/sports bar.


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 20 November 2017 - 04:48 PM.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#52 Nparker

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:47 PM

...We should be able to house the mentality I'll in a basic facility with rules .

As long as we offer some sort of treatment in order to assist those who have a chance for recovery and the potential for self-reliance in the future. The current rule-less warehousing and illicit drug use treadmill is helping no one.


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#53 tjv

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 08:21 AM

Perhaps my plan could be put in place at the Super 8, in the space where they previously had a liquor store and nightclub/sports bar.

Perhaps, just remember masonry walls are heavy and could only be installed on slab on grade and most structural engineers would want strip footings for each wall.  You could do it out of framed walls with abuse resistant drywall as a cost savings


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#54 lanforod

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 11:18 AM

What the heck is abuse resistant drywall?



#55 Nparker

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 11:23 AM

What the heck is abuse resistant drywall?

https://www.certaint...type-c-drywall/


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#56 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 11:29 AM

Ya, you could use hardboard too, we used that in nightclubs.  I still think the cinder block is better, esp. for soundproofing.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#57 Bingo

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:23 PM

Ya, you could use hardboard too, we used that in nightclubs.  I still think the cinder block is better, esp. for soundproofing.

 

I think the cider blocks would work as you could then go in with the fire hose to clean them once a tenant moves out.



#58 Matt R.

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 11:14 AM

Better add floor drains to the plan.

Matt.
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#59 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 11:16 AM

Better add floor drains to the plan.

Matt.

 

Yes, the plan has them and/or elevator floors, for when the inevitable flood happens.


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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#60 Bingo

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 02:55 PM

Yes, the plan has them and/or elevator floors, for when the inevitable flood happens.

 

Yeah once something bigger that four inches gets lodged in the toilet drains it's curtains for everyone.



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