94 replies to this topic

[LJ]

Oh, sorry, I mean we do not need to have a traffic light.  Just some paint on the road.  Then you know, you cross when the cars stop.  Problem is now that no car driver knows they are required to stop when you are standing there trying to cross.  They need a reminder crosswalk.

This will all be solved when autonomous cars take over the roadways, they will automatically stop for every pedestrian.

No need to waste money on signage or paint now.

[Coreyburger]

In the meantime can someone just do an old fashioned paint one?

 

US FHWA regulations don't allow unsignalized crossings on 4-lane streets because of the massive risk they pose - basically drivers are incapable of actually stopping for people in them and thus hit people

[Mike K.]

But we have one on Government at Pembroke and it seems to function fine.

[Cassidy]

But we have one on Government at Pembroke and it seems to function fine.

This exactly.

 

Drivers know that the Gov't and Pembroke crosswalk is there, and they stop when there are people waiting to cross.

I see people crossing safely here all the time.

 

The kind of thinking that says a crosswalk costs $200,000.00 I'm going to start calling "bridge thinking", in that it presumes that the taxpayers of Victoria are "OK" with their dollars being wasted on a bunch of solar powered, state of the art lighting equipment, when all that really needs to happen is two guys need to show up with a 20 litre can of traffic paint, a small paint spraying set-up, and some safety cones.

 

There is foot traffic at this intersection, but there's not endless foot traffic here (and Fisgard is only a 45 second walk to the South if you need a lighted crossing), so a painted crosswalk would be more than adequate here ... especially with Gov't St. bike lane work planned in the future ... but when we need a crosswalk there now.

 

The City really needs to be far more nimble in their thinking about these types of things than they currently are.

Not everything requires an Engineer and the latest and greatest hi-tec solution, sometimes some paint, a roller on a broom handle, and a couple of City Workers are just fine!

 

Like I said in my last post ... $200,000.00 for a City of Victoria crosswalk is insane, there's no "maybe it's insane" about it.

[nagel]

Luckily there's actual standards that engineers follow so we don't end up installing infrastructure that "seems fine".  These aren't CoV standards, but North American and Canadian ones.  Presumably they were made because enough people in North America have died crossing 4 lane arterials at unsignalized crosswalks.  That $200,000 pales in comparison to the economic impact of even a single traffic death, but in a ways, the economic impact is irrelevant.  Engineers are expected to follow standards and would certainly be held accountable for installing non-conforming infrastructure if a fatality did occur.

[nagel]

http://www.victoria....ion Process.pdf

 

This report from last year is extremely comprehensive and shows that a Herald crossing would receive a traffic signal.

[Cassidy]

Uhhh, yeah - but there's already a painted crosswalk at Government and Pembroke (just a couple of blocks away) that works just fine.

 

If you feel comfortable subscribing to the "big project" thinking when the subject of a simple crosswalk comes up, fill your metaphorical boots ... but for Victoria taxpayers (and just in general terms) a $200,000.00 crosswalk IS INSANE.

And you did read the part of my post that talked about the upcoming bike lane construction, right? ... the construction that will no doubt result in the tearing up of whatever gets put in place (if anything) at the Herald Street crossing of Gov't St.

 

And perhaps more to the point, lighted crosswalks don't stop car vs. pedestrian problems, that remains the responsibility of the driver and the pedestrian regardless of what's in place ... and I'll remind you that today, this morning ... in the fog ... there's NOTHING in place.

 

So a roller and some white traffic paint would be a heck of a lot more "safe" than what's there now.

Edited by Cassidy, 22 November 2017 - 07:33 AM.

[nagel]

The city could install a signalized crosswalk that was compatible with the future redesign.  They just did one at Cook and Haultain, where Haultain will be part of the AAA bike network.

[spanky123]

This City of Victoria staff report gives a good break down of all the costs related to the different types of crosswalks. $200,000 would put it in the pedestrian controlled traffic signal category.

 

http://www.victoria....ion Process.pdf

 

Like how the "detailed" costs are $120K - $176K yet the budgeted amount is $200K. A little extra here, a little extra there helps keep the wheels greased I guess.

[Cassidy]

http://www.victoria....ion Process.pdf

 

This report from last year is extremely comprehensive and shows that a Herald crossing would receive a traffic signal.

I have spent 35 years working at arms length from Government, local and regional -  so I've seen hundreds of these kinds of (City of Victoria) documents in my time.

 

They're the virus that drives the disease that created the bridge, bike lanes, and is about to create the new swimming pool. 

if you (not you personally) read these types of City of Victoria documents, and accept them as gospel, I'm unable to post anything that will otherwise resonate or appear like a rational thought.

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but it was a series of these very documents, on City of Victoria letterhead, formatted exactly the same way, with the same general syntax and cadence ... that created the Bridge in the first place.

 

To presume the City of Victoria knows what they're doing, be it a project driven by a politician - or driven by a bureaucratic functionary ... is to presume too much.

[nagel]

They didn't know what they were doing in regards to a moving bridge.  However a signalized crosswalk is not rocket science.

[Cassidy]

They didn't know what they were doing in regards to a moving bridge.  However a signalized crosswalk is not rocket science.

No it's not ... which is why two labourers at $45.00 per hour, a 20 litre bucket of traffic paint, and a roller on a broom handle can easily create a perfectly serviceable (and safe) crosswalk in less than a single work day.

 

(in my scenario, we'd be dropping the signal of course )

[rjag]

We all know how this will end. Government will be reduced to 1 lane in each direction with protected bike lanes due to the need for a crosswalk ;-). the area will be renamed to Herald Village to give it a quaint feeling.....

 

Sarcasm aside, its a good candidate for pedestrian controlled crosswalk, but traffic lights? How many pedestrians actually use that spot?

 

There is always an alternate solution, put a barrier up and discourage folks from crossing there. See it all the time in Cities around the UK. The barrier encourages the pedestrian to walk the 1 block to the traffic light on Fisgard or Caledonia....its not that hard to do and actually happens in many cities. There is zero need to have another traffic light installed

 

https://www.google.c...!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.c...!7i13312!8i6656

Edited by rjag, 22 November 2017 - 08:23 AM.

[nagel]

[rjag]

 

A well balanced and carefully thought out response.....

[nagel]

A well balanced and carefully thought out response.....

Since we have essentially never agreed on anything, it's time for a new tactic.  Blondes or brunettes?

[VicHockeyFan]

We all know how this will end. Government will be reduced to 1 lane in each direction with protected bike lanes due to the need for a crosswalk ;-). the area will be renamed to Herald Village to give it a quaint feeling.....

 

Sarcasm aside, its a good candidate for pedestrian controlled crosswalk, but traffic lights? How many pedestrians actually use that spot?

 

There is always an alternate solution, put a barrier up and discourage folks from crossing there. See it all the time in Cities around the UK. The barrier encourages the pedestrian to walk the 1 block to the traffic light on Fisgard or Caledonia....its not that hard to do and actually happens in many cities. There is zero need to have another traffic light installed

 

 

 

I do not want to see a barrier.  It's perfectly legal, safe, and allowable to cross the street there.  Pedestrians have the right-of-way, even if 97% (usual) of drivers do not know or care.  I still want to cross there and will cross safely with or without a crosswalk.   

[rjag]

I do not want to see a barrier.  It's perfectly legal, safe, and allowable to cross the street there.  Pedestrians have the right-of-way, even if 97% (usual) of drivers do not know or care.  I still want to cross there and will cross safely with or without a crosswalk.   

So Jaywalking?

[rjag]

Since we have essentially never agreed on anything, it's time for a new tactic.  Blondes or brunettes?

 

Brunettes, educated, smart, confident.....My old Doberman was all of those and more until she passed away 2 weeks ago.

[Nparker]

So Jaywalking?

http://www.meaforens...rked-crosswalks