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Tacoma Amtrak derailment - December 18, 2017


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#41 Bingo

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 02:30 PM

Birds eye view

 

http://www.cnn.com/v...ain-derailment/



#42 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 02:40 PM

Oh my, hard to know how they got that scattered.  Likely dispersed a bit by parts of the bridge.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#43 Cassidy

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:09 PM

Associated Press reporting that the train may have hit something prior to derailing.

 

"An official briefed on the investigation told The Associated Press that preliminary signs indicate that Train 501 may have struck something before going off the track about 40 miles (64 kilometers) south of Seattle. The official was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke on the condition of anonymity."



#44 Mike K.

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:10 PM

Makes you wonder if there is foul play involved here.

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#45 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:11 PM

Well, a train does not come off the track on its own, if it's going at the regulated speed.  It hits something, or the track has damage.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#46 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:13 PM

Makes you wonder if there is foul play involved here.

 

People put sh!t on the tracks all the time.  Luckily, it's mostly stuff moved in the way by hand, so light enough that the train just knocks it away.  It does not take a lot of mass to derail a train, but it has to be done right.  For example, a derailer can be handled by one man.  But it's a specialized piece of equipment.  

 

You'll notice, for example, most train/automobile crashes at level crossings, the train never derails.

 

nolan-derailer.jpg


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 18 December 2017 - 03:20 PM.

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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#47 Cassidy

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:16 PM

There are photos on the KOMO Seattle news site which clearly show the front of the engine. It's difficult to tell if there's any noticeable damage to the facade of the engine, but one would have to suppose that damage could have been equally done to the engines undercarriage, which isn't visible in photos.

 

Although in the KOMO and CNN photos, the engine is quite clearly still solidly on the track.



#48 shoeflack

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:26 PM

Just FYI, this train has a locomotive on either end. The lead locomotive is on the I-5, the one at the rear is still on the tracks.

 

Lead locomotive:

lead.jpg

 

Rear locomotive:

rear.jpg



#49 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:26 PM

Although in the KOMO and CNN photos, the engine is quite clearly still solidly on the track.

 

Is that the back or the front, the one on the track?  Those rail engines are very comfortable going either way, they are just electric engines with no gears.  So they are happy to go either way in regular service.  So a train set like that might very well have one locomotive on each end. And they "point" in opposite directions.  This is the easiest way to "turn around" the train at the other end of its run, too.


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 18 December 2017 - 03:30 PM.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#50 Bingo

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:34 PM

It appears that the engine left the track first and ended up on the road pulling other cars off the track.

The track had been mostly straight until the curve in question. I would guess that they were going to fast for the curve.

 

Here is the engine sitting on the Interstate.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2...ment/index.html

 

171218153333-24-wa-antrak-crash-1218-sup



#51 Cassidy

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:37 PM

The Amtrack daily schedule for the #501 shows that it's a train that begins its run in Seattle, and runs South to Portland.

It's arrival in and around Lacey as per this schedule would have been within minutes of when this accident occurred.

 

That would make the engine still on the tracks as the lead engine (as it's heading South), and the engine down on I-5 the non-running rear engine.


Edited by Cassidy, 18 December 2017 - 03:44 PM.

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#52 shoeflack

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:42 PM

Shoeflack may be correct, there are definitely conflicting reports.

 

Most reports indicate that the train was heading South, which would make the engine still on the track the lead engine.

Other reports seem to indicate (with language) that the engine on I-5 was the lead, and the engine on the track was the rear, non-running engine (which would mean it would have had to have been heading North).

 

The train was heading south, which would put the engine still on the tracks as the rear engine. If you follow the tracks at Google Maps you'll see that they follow the I-5 in the same direction. That end of the train goes north to Seattle, while the other end goes south towards Portland.



#53 shoeflack

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:43 PM

Good schematic here...

 

2017WashingtonDerailmentSchematicSiteOve



#54 Cassidy

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:48 PM

My mistake, you are of course, absolutely correct.

 

Spacial disorientation on my part.


Edited by Cassidy, 18 December 2017 - 03:49 PM.

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#55 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:50 PM

THIS video is a pretty good train crash documentary, for those interested.

 

 

The Ladbroke Grove rail crash (also known as the Paddington train crash) was a rail accident which occurred on 5 October 1999 at Ladbroke Grove in London, United Kingdom. With 31 people killed and more than 400 injured, this remains one of the worst rail accidents in Britain.

 


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 18 December 2017 - 03:51 PM.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#56 Bingo

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:52 PM

The lead locomotive didn't make the curve and left the tracks down onto the highway pulling a few cars with it.

Once the first part of the train stopped below south side of the bridge, the following cars jackknifed onto the bridge, and then the rest of the cars had nowhere to go but onto highway on the north side of the bridge.

That's my armchair assessment.

 

post-3218-0-32526200-1513639540.jpg



#57 Cassidy

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:57 PM

If you have a listen to the conductor when he makes his emergency radio call, it's amazing he's as calm as he is considering he crawled out of the engine on I-5.

 

In the radio call to Amtrack emergency, he calls the train "my train", so he would be the conductor in the working engine.

 

Along with my spatial disorientation, having listened to the radio call a few times, I convincingly envisioned the engineer simply climbing out of the intact engine still on the tracks ... and couldn't imagine him being that calm after such a brutal crash down onto I-5.



#58 Bingo

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:59 PM

That looks like an old bridge and you can check it out by going under it in Street view.

https://www.google.c...12!8i6656?hl=en



#59 Cassidy

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 04:01 PM

New tracks, ballast, and retaining walls ... but definitely an old bridge.

 

Google Street View shows a whole lot of heavy machinery right up where the crash occurred putting all that new ballast and retaining wall (and presumably tracks) in.

 

New high-speed tracks on an old bridge?



#60 Mike K.

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 04:04 PM

Isn’t a conductor in the passenger compartments?

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