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Alberta NDP and BC NDP at war with each other


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#1 Star Dust

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 12:59 PM

As you may have heard, the Alberta NDP &  the BC NDP are at war with each other over differences involving the Kinder Morgan Trans Mountain pipeline and has now launched a FULL and immediate Boycott of importing BC Wines, which generates around 70 million a year for the province of BC.. The Alberta NDP  has also suspended talks to buy B.C. electricity.  This Boycott will heavily affect Southern Vancouver Island Winery's.

 

B.C. NDP Premier John Horgan said his government has the right to consult with citizens on the impact of diluted bitumen spills on the coastline.

 

The part I find so unusual about this situation, is that I can't remember a time in my life when  two Provinces who are lead by the same political party are actually at war with each other.

 

 Unlike most other parties in Canada, where provincial and federal politics and parties are separated and members of one are not necessarily members of the other, NDP members are automatically members of both the federal and provincial party, and provincial NDP Parties are considered an arm of the Federal NDP party.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ntain-1.4523473

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Edited by Star Dust, 07 February 2018 - 01:06 PM.

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#2 RFS

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 01:01 PM

I wouldnt say the title of this thread is fair. One could argue horgan started it
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#3 Jackerbie

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 01:08 PM

This Boycott will heavily affect Southern Vancouver Island Winery's.

 

How big are the south island wineries, and do they typically export to AB or is their market more focused on BC? I don't remember seeing much else than Okanagan VQA wines when I lived in Alberta. Mission Hill definitely has a lot to lose here.



#4 Star Dust

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 01:12 PM

How big are the south island wineries, and do they typically export to AB or is their market more focused on BC? I don't remember seeing much else than Okanagan VQA wines when I lived in Alberta. Mission Hill definitely has a lot to lose here.

 

About 95 per cent of Canadian wine sold in Alberta liquor stores is from B.C.  Our Island Winery's indeed import their wine to the Alberta Market, so almost every winery in BC will feel the effect of this boycott.


Edited by Star Dust, 07 February 2018 - 01:12 PM.


#5 RFS

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 01:13 PM

http://nationalpost....y-targeted-wine

"But the trade barrier hits a prestigious infant B.C. industry — one that has lots of participation from rich, influential, successful British Columbians — right in the solar plexus. It took decades of effort, and presumably plenty of cash investment, to build up an Alberta market for B.C. wine. That market may never rebound even if Notley cancels the embargo tomorrow. Why would it? By her arguably silly action, she has certainly caught the attention of Albertans who were buying B.C. wine in the warm, fuzzy spirit of neighbourliness."

#6 Mike K.

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 01:14 PM

I believe the wine industry lobby group says the actual impact will be closer to $160 million.


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#7 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 01:17 PM

Alberta is the #1 Canadian market for own wine.

Hopefully somebody sorts this out.

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#8 tjv

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 01:41 PM

Very simple, all Alberta grain cars are now banned from entering BC (including those destined for BC ports) same with all Alberta beef etc

 

And when we do ship Alberta thru BC via Kinder Morgan its $10 per barrel tax


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#9 Star Dust

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 01:42 PM

Very simple, all Alberta grain cars are now banned from entering BC (including those destined for BC ports) same with all Alberta beef etc

 

And when we do ship Alberta thru BC via Kinder Morgan its $10 per barrel tax

 

Is that a scenario? Or has Horgan actually put those sanctions on Alberta in retaliation for the wine ban?


Edited by Star Dust, 07 February 2018 - 01:43 PM.


#10 Cassidy

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 02:32 PM

In games like this, the party that has the most to offer always wins in the end.

 

That party would be B.C., as it's B.C. public/private/first nations that owns the land that the pipeline must travel through in order to deliver the bitumen to the sea.

 

Alberta has nothing at all to put on the table.

Threatening the B.C. wine industry is a poor strategic move on Alberta's part, if only because as noted above, the scenario could easily manifest into an escalating sequence of events that could see B.C. banning Alberta products (grain and beef) from entering B.C. - which would have a far more devastating impact on Alberta than keeping a B.C. wines out of Alberta would have on B.C.

B.C. has every legal right to dictate which foodstuffs can enter into B.C. ... grain and beef both being provincially controlled foodstuffs.

 

B.C. wine is somewhat of a niche industry when compared to Alberta beef and grain industry ... which is literally two of the backbones of the Alberta economy.

 

Horgan isn't stupid, and won't do anything to destabilize the coalition he's built.

As a result, Alberta will lose in this little battle ... and based on their actions to date that will be sooner than later ... as from a strategic point of view they don't seem to have a clue what they're doing.


Edited by Cassidy, 07 February 2018 - 02:33 PM.


#11 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 02:40 PM

B.C. has every legal right to dictate which foodstuffs can enter into B.C. ... grain and beef both being provincially controlled foodstuffs


I’m not so sure about that...

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#12 jonny

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 02:49 PM

as from a strategic point of view they don't seem to have a clue what they're doing.

 

I actually think it's a brilliant move that highlights the hypocrisy and ridiculousness of BC's stance on the oil trade issue. 


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#13 tjv

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 03:06 PM

Is that a scenario? Or has Horgan actually put those sanctions on Alberta in retaliation for the wine ban?

No, its my suggestion as to what Horgan should do in retaliation



#14 rjag

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 03:33 PM

Horgan is the instigator, has exceeded BC's authority and is now playing the innocent victim. Unfortunately it appears our PM is not publicly involved. 

 

Horgans going to try and frustrate KM to walk away. 

 

This is a bad move but is playing into Weaver to keep him on side



#15 rjag

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 03:39 PM

https://globalnews.c...ting-reelected/

 

 

 

Believe me, there’s nothing Horgan and the NDP want more than to get this issue into the courts. Once there, they have the ability to delay, appeal, and to put this thing on ice.

 

Theres also the fact that a Trade War between these 2 parties is actually good for them in the Polls. Notley needs to show she's fighting for the pipeline as its an election year and she's a dead woman walking, Horgan needs to show his base and Weaver that hes willing to take this on as penance for Site C.

 

The losers are businesses based in strong Liberal ridings so it doesnt matter to Horgan, he's not going to lose sleep over them as they'll find new buyers as its not a perishable product.

 

Trudeau is anti pipeline anyway so he'll play this out, make lots of noise and huff and puff and it may end up in the courts where it will be delayed for years....and KM will eventually give up and walk away.


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#16 johnk

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 03:45 PM

I am standing firm. I refuse to drink Alberta wine. As for beef, I'm perfectly happy with BC beef from Nicola Valley and other sources.
Maybe Alberta should have exercised some competence and built industries other than oil and gas. Do they make anything?

And maybe, just maybe, they should have built their rainy-day fund instead of handing out boozed-up Kleinbucks to suck votes. Alberta and Norway have about the same population but Norway has $1 trillion while Alberta has about $12 billion in the kitty. Put another way, Norway has $1000 and Alberta has $12.

And why should Alberta grab all the profit from shipping oil sludge through BC while we take all the risk when an enviro-disaster
happens?

Rant over.
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#17 rjag

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 03:48 PM

I am standing firm. I refuse to drink Alberta wine. As for beef, I'm perfectly happy with BC beef from Nicola Valley and other sources.
Maybe Alberta should have exercised some competence and built industries other than oil and gas. Do they make anything?

And maybe, just maybe, they should have built their rainy-day fund instead of handing out boozed-up Kleinbucks to suck votes. Alberta and Norway have about the same population but Norway has $1 trillion while Alberta has about $12 billion in the kitty. Put another way, Norway has $1000 and Alberta has $12.

And why should Alberta grab all the profit from shipping oil sludge through BC while we take all the risk when an enviro-disaster
happens?

Rant over.

I think you need to add back all the federal transfer payments Alberta has made over the years at approx $2Billion per year....so say the last 15 years can add another $30Billion to  their bottom line

 

The $7.4 billion* pipeline Project will increase the value of Canadian oil by unlocking access to world markets. A Conference Board of Canada report has determined the combined government revenue impact for construction and the first 20 years of expanded operations is $46.7 billion, including federal and provincial taxes that can be used for public services such as health care and education.

  • British Columbia receives $5.7 billion
  • Alberta receives $19.4 billion
  • The rest of Canada shares $21.6 billion
  • Municipal tax payments (not adjusted for inflation) total $922 million to BC and $124 million to Alberta over the first 20 years of expanded pipeline operations.

Edited by rjag, 07 February 2018 - 03:51 PM.


#18 jonny

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 04:18 PM

And why should Alberta grab all the profit from shipping oil sludge through BC while we take all the risk when an enviro-disaster
happens?

 

Because confederation

 

Besides, we will receive plenty of economic benefits from the pipeline and an environmental disaster is not a "when" proposition but an extremely unlikely fringe scenario. 


Edited by jonny, 07 February 2018 - 04:18 PM.

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#19 LJ

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 07:26 PM

The losers are businesses based in strong Liberal ridings so it doesnt matter to Horgan, he's not going to lose sleep over them as they'll find new buyers as its not a perishable product.

 

I disagree with this, the real losers are going to be the residents of BC and Alberta. When Alberta stops shipping beef and grain to BC we are going to pay more for those commodities. If they decide to pump bitumen through the existing pipeline instead of the oil that can be refined to provide gas to BC, we will have gas shortages and pay through the nose for it. 


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#20 jonny

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 07:32 PM

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