563 replies to this topic

[tjv]

Nope. Alberta was moving legislation through that would allow it squeeze our supply, but that has not happened yet.

 

The actual supply squeeze has been due to scheduled upgrades and maintenance to both the Parkland refinery (Burnaby) and refineries in Cherry Point (Washington).

My remark was sarcastic.  Parkland was completed in early March and Cherry Point was supposed to be completed last Friday.  I highly doubt we will ever see prices fall back to January levels

 

Meanwhile, according to the TC this morning it says "Kinder Morgan will go ahead with its $7.4 billion plan to twin the pipeline..."  Excuse me TC, Kinder Morgan no longer owns the pipeline.

 

Also now that it is publicly owned, I am expecting to see public open tenders for all work on this pipeline as this is now 100% public money, not the hookers, blow, trips, etc that was handed out when it was private money.  Every cent needs to be accounted for right Mr. Trudeau?

[tjv]

^ Not sure Ezra Levant has it correctly, and I'm no accountant, but the line item he's referring to is a $377M "goodwill impairment charge." So doesn't that mean KM paid $377M more than "fair value" of TMs assets? The document is here: https://www.kindermo...3Q_Rpt_2012.pdf

 

Any accountants in here who can clear this one up?
 

I am not an accountant, but goodwill is basically the value of the company beyond the actual assets of the company.  Things like brand recognition, customer loyalty, etc, etc are goodwill.  Someone who buys a Coke automatically when looking for a pop is goodwill as an example.  Its hard to actually to come up with a fair market value of goodwill, at least it is in my company

 

a goodwill impairment charge is where the previous goodwill was over inflated and the amount was reduced on the balance sheet

 

This is nothing to do with the value of buying the pipeline

[nagel]

It might not have been overinflated at the time but if as of the reporting date it isn't worth that anymore a writedown is required.

[Jackerbie]

OK so take these numbers as you will, but I dug up the 2007 annual report. Notably, Kinder Morgan Energy Partners bough the pipeline from... Kinder Morgan.

 

"On April 30, 2007, Kinder Morgan, Inc. sold the Trans Mountain pipeline system to Kinder Morgan Energy Partners for approximately $550 million."

 

The same year, they spend $305M on phase 1 upgrades, and earmarked $485M for phase 2 upgrades. These have since been completed.

[Mike K.]

Ok, so about $1.6B converted to CAD at 20% (presumably we're referring to USD with those numbers?).

[Mattjvd]

^ Not sure Ezra Levant has it correctly, and I'm no accountant, but the line item he's referring to is a $377M "goodwill impairment charge." So doesn't that mean KM paid $377M more than "fair value" of TMs assets? The document is here: https://www.kindermo...3Q_Rpt_2012.pdf

Any accountants in here who can clear this one up?

Pretty much this^^

Although, it's not really in excess of 'fair value', It's in excess of material assets. Intanglable assets are always tricky to value, they likely paid much more than $377 million over the value of the material assets, and were reducing the valuation of the GoodWill by $377.

[spanky123]

Also now that it is publicly owned, I am expecting to see public open tenders for all work on this pipeline as this is now 100% public money, not the hookers, blow, trips, etc that was handed out when it was private money.  Every cent needs to be accounted for right Mr. Trudeau?

 

Not sure if you are being sarcastic again but the days of publicly held companies blowing shareholder cash on 'hookers, blow, trips, etc' are long gone. 

[jonny]

Regardless of the actual our base price in 2007, it appears as though the value of the TM pipeline has gone up dramatically since then. Please tell me again about there being no economic argument for the expansion.

[tjv]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic again but the days of publicly held companies blowing shareholder cash on 'hookers, blow, trips, etc' are long gone. 

No, I'm not, they still exist in the oil industry.  I know some people who still have difficulty trying to explain some of their expenses.

 

On a side note didn't Mr. Trudeau accept a free personal family trip to the Caribbean recently?  Not saying all federal employees are like that, I once went to a business lunch and the federal employees refused to let me pay for their share saying it was strict policy they had to pay.

[rjag]

http://theprovince.c...cebook#comments

 

Daily Poll: Do you support Premier John Horgan in his vow to keep fighting the pipeline expansion on B.C.'s coast?

15,000 votes cast 78% do not support Horgan....

[rjag]

20,000 votes now and still holding at 78% against Horgan.

 

Would love to be a fly on the wall in the Cabinet Room these days

Edited by rjag, 30 May 2018 - 03:55 PM.

[rjag]

25,000 votes still holding at 77.5% against Horgan

[vortoozo]

To put it succinctly: no private sector company can be expected to bear the risks of building an oil pipeline in Canada. That's the political climate here.

KM wasn't comfortable with the risks of the project. It's now the taxpayers that must insure against these risks.

[vortoozo]

25,000 votes still holding at 77.5% against Horgan

Online polls have pretty much no statistical validity. There was also a figure quoted in yesterday's Globe & Mail that 70% of BC residents were against government ownership of the pipeline. It's a different metric to be sure, but still goes to show how much opposition there is for the project.

[rjag]

KM wasn't comfortable with the risks of the project. It's now the taxpayers that must insure against these risks.

 

Respectfully, the risks KM werent comfortable with was the political interference from BC....they had presold 80% of their new capacity and the engineering and building of a new pipeline is not that hard. 

 

The 'risks' were the continual court actions and challenges from the Province. The game was to frustrate them into quitting like Energy East except this one backfired.

 

Online polls have pretty much no statistical validity. There was also a figure quoted in yesterday's Globe & Mail that 70% of BC residents were against government ownership of the pipeline. It's a different metric to be sure, but still goes to show how much opposition there is for the project.

 

I'm against public ownership of the pipeline, there was a business willing to invest their own money into this, taxpayers now as a result of the BC NDP's passive aggressive stance get to carry that burden. 

 

I'm also against public ownership/subsidy of the CBC, marketing boards, all the taxpayer subsidies to Bombardier and GM etc. Government should be building roads, water and sewage and providing access to power. Everything else they put their hand to they make worse or more expensive

 

Ronald Reagan said about Governments view of an economy...."if it moves, tax it. If it continues to move, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it"

 

He also said  "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Edited by rjag, 31 May 2018 - 06:08 AM.

[spanky123]

No, I'm not, they still exist in the oil industry.  I know some people who still have difficulty trying to explain some of their expenses.

 

On a side note didn't Mr. Trudeau accept a free personal family trip to the Caribbean recently?  Not saying all federal employees are like that, I once went to a business lunch and the federal employees refused to let me pay for their share saying it was strict policy they had to pay.

 

I have consulted to many large private sector organizations. The code of conduct and expense and travel reimbursement manuals read like "war and peace". Anyone who thinks that they are just for show operates at their own peril and that goes from the top on down. We live in a day and age where a photo can get anyone instantly canned. 

 

Now if you want to talk about largess, waste and absolute corruption then read the last few days of material in the G&M where they offer explosive commentary on the Phoenix pay system and how public money is making a lot of private people rich.

Edited by spanky123, 31 May 2018 - 07:21 AM.

[tjv]

^thanks, but I know what I have seen.  If its not hookers, etc its renovations to their houses, etc, etc, etc.  I know one guy in Oak Bay who got a free 500k reno to his house.

 

we also live in a day and age where someone gets fired they are instantly down at their lawyers suing their former employers.  I know one lawyer very well in Vancouver and that's all he does.

[rjag]

Final tally of the Province poll, 38,900 votes, 77.76% are not in support of Horgan

 

That is not a small poll, those are some big numbers....folks are angry

[LJ]

Call an election, and then we will have a real poll.

[Mike K.]

About 35 year ago Trudeau senior created Petro-Canada by nationalizing BP assets and the assets of other producers, and now Trudeau junior has nationalized a pipeline and has backed another.

How peculiar is that?