135 replies to this topic

[tjv]

I'm not interested in my tax dollars paying for a "free" education only to have the person drop out.  When you spend your own money on things, there is an automatic motivator.

I am not interested in it either, or for them to skip the country once they graduate and work in the USA for example

 

Canada post secondary education is cheap compared to the US

[dasmo]

Imagine if we went to a communist system here. A complete and total brain drain to the US would happen. Then when people had to wait five years for simple surgery the sick would follow....  

 

How does life look being given an aptitude test at ten years old then assigned your life work assignment and your single living box, then your married living box, then downgraded upon divorce, then being turned into soylent green when your 40 because your productivity has run its course.... 

Edited by dasmo, 09 February 2018 - 03:49 PM.

[Love the rock]

Exactly...........It all boils down to the class system and "entitlement". It's this attitude in society that certain people are entitled to a better quality of life over others based on how much they have accomplished in life.
We should all be Equal when it comes to quality of life. Nobody should have to live in poverty,

I disagree on a few levels If you take a low paying entry level job and never trying to improve or progress to a higher paying job with more responsibilities why should I just hand you more money .If you’re happy with working at a low paying job with little to no responsibility I’m happy for you too.
In no way do I look down on you but it’s your choice.
Upping minimum wage won’t bring people out of poverty ,people have to bring themselves out of poverty .
We have a few safeguards ,example.
Higher income in subsidies housing means you pay more .
Does your higher wage put you in a higher tax bracket so you actually make the same or less .
Everyone has to figure out the best way for themselves to be financially successful and what it means to them .
Poor ,middle class and rich all declare bankruptcy .
Many people live in poverty trying to dig themselves out of holes for whatever reason regardless of their income .
Getting back to your statement “no one should have to live in poverty” then on some level take personal responsibility change your own circumstances .

[VicHockeyFan]

Post-secondary education is already highly subsidized.  I'm cool with the user picking up the last 10 or 15%.  Giving things out for "free" leads to abuse, as people value it less.

[Awaiting Juno]

You have got to be kidding..........I worked harder then any boss I ever had for years making minimum wage. Minimum wage workers are often the hardest working people in all of society.

 

Trust me when I was making minimum wage, and my boss was sitting up in his office making 10 times my annual income to sit behind a desk and do nothing all day long......I would say that he was not "Working Hard" for his income. He was simply "Entitled To It" right?  He had his pretty clothes and his fancy cars, and laughed all the way to the bank, while I was living in a room with a hot plate, eating hot dogs, and having to share a bathroom with everyone else that lived in the building.

 

"Doing nothing" like risking his life savings for his business.  "Doing nothing" like thinking about whether or not they'll make payroll next month, or if they'll have to dip into savings to cover it.  "Doing nothing" like worrying about tax changes that directly impact their financial security.  "Doing nothing" like sorting through resumes to find somebody who is a good fit for the position.  "Doing nothing" like keeping between 10 and 20 other people gainfully employed.  If you sit behind a desk, as a business owner,  rarely do you "do nothing".  You might not be mopping floors, but most business owners work long hours, there's no such thing as leaving it at the office, and at the end of the day, there is no guarantee that they'll even be paid minimum wage for the work that they've done.    

 

Rather than envying his nice car, and his clothes, why wouldn't you ask yourself, what did this person do to earn those nice clothes and that nice car?  They probably didn't win a lotto - they probably worked hard at school, and then worked hard to build a business.  They probably sacrificed years to get where they were.  Only to have (some) people view them as some kind of leach, for having the gall to pay the market wage for the services rendered.  Further, if they are driving that nice car and wearing those nice clothes, chances are they're paying a hefty tax bill to boot.  They're paying so that the minimum wage worker doesn't have to pay for MSP, they're paying so that that same worker can get a full childcare subsidy while they pay a small mortgage to put their own kids through daycare, they're paying so that there are roads to drive on and schools to attend, they're paying so that the hospital is staffed with people who can help those who are sick, regardless of whether or not they can pay to be helped.  We've got to quit viewing the well-off with a contempt that is sorely misplaced - most pay their fair share.  Imagine for a moment if Canada lost those who have the drive and vision to be entrepreneurs?  If being an employer was something no one wanted to do - because, for all the work it involves, it only earned you contempt?     

 

Lastly, why is the experience of "being poor" something to be saved from ever experiencing?  Why do we discount the value of having to struggle, of having to work for things, of having to save or sacrifice for reward later?  Being poor as a transitory experience (something that people go through but do not "stay in") may in and of itself be valuable.    

[Awaiting Juno]

Note - I speak of the "working well-off", not the Morneau's and Trudeau's who speak of "family fortunes".  It's awful funny how business owners get scorn for worrying about whether or not changes to the minimum wage might tip the scales of their businesses, yet the trust fund elite escape any scrutiny of where they choose to hold their accumulated wealth, or how that wealth is taxed.  Keep the poor focussed on their bosses, and they'll never notice the true travesty of those responsible for driving up housing prices.

[rjag]

We truly have entered an era where success is viewed as having come at the cost of the poor downtrodden worker by some folks. Its like a badge of honour to be the underdog.

[VicHockeyFan]

I’m not sure if we are quite there yet. Lots of politicians trippIng over themselves to please the Bezos and Musk crowd. Those guys, Branson, Gates, for example still held in pretty high regard.

[Cassidy]

Some pretty twisted concepts of how money actually works in this thread - where it comes from, and how it gets distributed.

 

Even my dad told me that "money doesn't grow on trees - you have to go out and earn it".

Money is "earned".

 

Even those folks on social assistance are being paid with "earned money" through the many levels of taxes I (and many others) have been paying for the past 40+ years on income that we've EARNED.

 

You want more money? ... get off your ass and go earn more money ... go to school ... take a bartending course and open a bar ... learn how to weld ... become a social worker ... do SOMETHING beyond posting on the internet that you feel you need some nebulous figure in some mysterious level of government to give you more money so you "don't feel poor" any more.

 

This is your life, best to start living it.

Waiting around for somebody to "give you some money" is a grand waste of your short time here on this good earth.

 

(BTW, jobs are paid according to supply and demand. There are hundreds of thousands of mechanics, there are mere "hundreds" of advanced brain surgeons - so the rule of supply and demand dictates that brain surgeons can not only get paid more, they can get paid FAR MORE than a mechanic. You want more government mandated job equity than that, take a trip to Cuba or Venezuela and ask them how it's worked out for them)

[LJ]

I think SD and FTHC would thrive in Cuba, it's everything that they believe in.  I wonder why their citizens keep trying to escape to the USA? It's got to be a workers paradise, why would they want to leave? And such a thriving economy.

[Star Dust]

I think SD and FTHC would thrive in Cuba, it's everything that they believe in.  I wonder why their citizens keep trying to escape to the USA? It's got to be a workers paradise, why would they want to leave? And such a thriving economy.

 

If you want to take cheap shots at me, you can send me a private message alright.

 

Cheers,

[Star Dust]

I will sum up what the true definition of a "living wage" is.

 

 

The ability for everyone regardless of age, religion, ethnic background or political affiliation to live in a way that everything you "Need" is provided to you, instead of everything you "Want"

 

You see, what you "Want" and what you "Need" are two very different things.

 

If everyone simply had what they "Needed" instead of everything they "Wanted"............society would be a much more peaceful and productive place to live.

Edited by Star Dust, 10 February 2018 - 02:30 AM.

[dasmo]

If everyone simply had what they "Needed" instead of everything they "Wanted"............society would be a much more peaceful and productive place to live.

I’m for the concept of a living wage but these comments lose me. They actually terrify me.
We only need 16%/body mass x metabolism rate of nutrients intake, 100 sqft for waste excitement and 4 hours of sleep purposes, 10mg of Prozac taken 4 times daily, one white jump suit, and our heads shaved once a week and we are all set for peace and productivity!

Who gets to decide what we need?

[Star Dust]

I’m for the concept of a living wage but these comments lose me. They actually terrify me.
We only need 16%/body mass x metabolism rate of nutrients intake, 100 sqft for waste excitement and 4 hours of sleep purposes, 10mg of Prozac taken 4 times daily, one white jump suit, and our heads shaved once a week and we are all set for peace and productivity!

Who gets to decide what we need?

 

 

LOL  thanks, I needed a good morning Chuckle

 

Cheers

[Love the rock]

Actually Star Dust previously you stated no one should live in poverty.
I disagree.
I think being poor is a good thing ,that is for a time .
We would be better off as a society if everyone got to experienced poverty for a decent length of time .
I’m not talking living on a garbage dump in India poor .
Canadian poor .
With Canadian poor there’s safeguards.
It built my character and my ability to think outside the box .
Looking back I don’t regret my times of struggle one bit .

Opportunity’s only presented themselves because I was looking.
Hard flipping opportunity that made me who I am today .
No chip on my shoulder ,then or now .
I know I can rely on myself .

[dasmo]

LOL thanks, I needed a good morning Chuckle

Cheers

Someone gets my cynical sense of humour!

[sdwright.vic]

I’m for the concept of a living wage but these comments lose me. They actually terrify me.
We only need 16%/body mass x metabolism rate of nutrients intake, 100 sqft for waste excitement and 4 hours of sleep purposes, 10mg of Prozac taken 4 times daily, one white jump suit, and our heads shaved once a week and we are all set for peace and productivity!

Who gets to decide what we need?

OMG that movie is on this morning. Had to stop watching it, to strange for even me! 🤡

[amor de cosmos]

I’m for the concept of a living wage but these comments lose me. They actually terrify me.
We only need 16%/body mass x metabolism rate of nutrients intake, 100 sqft for waste excitement and 4 hours of sleep purposes, 10mg of Prozac taken 4 times daily, one white jump suit, and our heads shaved once a week and we are all set for peace and productivity!

Who gets to decide what we need?

jeff bezos, apparently:

Amazon has patented designs for a wristband that can precisely track where warehouse employees are placing their hands and use vibrations to nudge them in a different direction.

The concept, which aims to streamline the fulfilment of orders, adds another layer of surveillance to an already challenging working environment.

When someone orders a product from Amazon, the details are transmitted to the handheld computers that all warehouse staff carry. Upon receiving the order details, the worker must rush to retrieve the product from one of many inventory bins on shelves, pack it into a delivery box and move on to the next assignment.

The proposed wristbands would use ultrasonic tracking to identify the precise location of a worker’s hands as they retrieve items. One of the patents outlines a haptic feedback system that would vibrate against the wearer’s skin to point their hand in the right direction.

*snip*

Amazon already has a reputation for turning low-paid staff into “human robots” – working alongside thousands of proper robots – carrying out repetitive packaging tasks as fast as possible in an attempt to hit goals set by handheld computers.

This month, the 24-year-old warehouse worker Aaron Callaway described having just 15 seconds to scan items and place them into the right cart during his night shifts at an Amazon warehouse in the UK. “My main interaction is with the robots,” he said.

In 2016, a BBC investigation found that agency workers making Amazon deliveries reported defecating in bags, speeding and falling asleep at the wheel as they desperately tried to hit ambitious delivery targets issued by an Amazon logistics app.

https://www.theguard...stband-tracking

[tjv]

Actually Star Dust previously you stated no one should live in poverty.
I disagree.
I think being poor is a good thing ,that is for a time .
We would be better off as a society if everyone got to experienced poverty for a decent length of time .
I’m not talking living on a garbage dump in India poor .
Canadian poor .
With Canadian poor there’s safeguards.
It built my character and my ability to think outside the box .
Looking back I don’t regret my times of struggle one bit .

Opportunity’s only presented themselves because I was looking.
Hard flipping opportunity that made me who I am today .
No chip on my shoulder ,then or now .
I know I can rely on myself .

Its actually an excellent point.  I was poor thru my university days and for the first year after graduation.  It made me budget my money carefully and taught me the value of money.  That and my parents also instilled me that I should always have spare money and not blow it on stupid things because one day an opportunity to invest in something will come along and you will need money for that.

 

That opportunity did come along and I am glad I had saved money for it.  This is the land of opportunity, everyone can become rich if they work hard and save.  Jimmy Pattison is a prime example of that

[FirstTimeHomeCrier]

I think SD and FTHC would thrive in Cuba, it's everything that they believe in.  I wonder why their citizens keep trying to escape to the USA? It's got to be a workers paradise, why would they want to leave? And such a thriving economy.

 

Not every person opposed to capitalism is a Marxist-Leninist.